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Egypt, what a happening.

Posted by rkj 
February 20, 2011 07:08PM
Well, the 8 hour day, the 40 hour workweek, workplace safety, all the things the labor unions accomplished have been legislated into law for those of us who don't have union jobs. If employers (in this case the great state of Wi.) needs to take back some of the benefits (full medical and pension) because the costs of those 2 benefits have skyrocketed, should the workers be allowed to strike? Depending on who you talk to, yes/no. The only way the state can accomplish the benefits is to raise taxes on everyone in the state and obviously, that is not a viable option at this point in time.

The problem is that we are rapidly approaching a financial critical mass in this country on the local, state and national level so you can raise taxes or cut benefits.

alan
rkj
February 20, 2011 08:02PM
Quote
alanrw
Well, the 8 hour day, the 40 hour workweek, workplace safety, all the things the labor unions accomplished have been legislated into law for those of us who don't have union jobs. If employers (in this case the great state of Wi.) needs to take back some of the benefits (full medical and pension) because the costs of those 2 benefits have skyrocketed, should the workers be allowed to strike? Depending on who you talk to, yes/no. The only way the state can accomplish the benefits is to raise taxes on everyone in the state and obviously, that is not a viable option at this point in time.

The problem is that we are rapidly approaching a financial critical mass in this country on the local, state and national level so you can raise taxes or cut benefits.

alan

This is not about money, the republicans want to bust the unions. All the dems have left town so this issue can not be voted in. All of the states need to worry about this; if it happens in Wisconsin it Will happen in every state!
February 20, 2011 09:25PM
Well, from what I read, Wi. is in the hole $25 billion. Here in Calif., promises of generous pensions are in deep trouble. The monies set aside for state employee pensions (up to 90% in many cases) have deflated with the economic melt down. The issue is if concessions are not made, people counting on their state employee pensions are gonna get a letter that says "you will never guess what happened to your pension.....". So the issue here is either renegotiate pension terms and amounts or watch the entire thing sink/vaporize.

Evidently, again from what I have read, in Wi., the cost of 100% medical insurance as well as pension is becoming insurmountable to the state treasury. At that point, the ability to strike or not strike seems kinda moot, no?

alan
rkj
February 20, 2011 09:45PM
Quote
alanrw
Well, from what I read, Wi. is in the hole $25 billion. Here in Calif., promises of generous pensions are in deep trouble. The monies set aside for state employee pensions (up to 90% in many cases) have deflated with the economic melt down. The issue is if concessions are not made, people counting on their state employee pensions are gonna get a letter that says "you will never guess what happened to your pension.....". So the issue here is either renegotiate pension terms and amounts or watch the entire thing sink/vaporize.

Evidently, again from what I have read, in Wi., the cost of 100% medical insurance as well as pension is becoming insurmountable to the state treasury. At that point, the ability to strike or not strike seems kinda moot, no?

alan

Check this out [www.msnbc.msn.com] and let me know what your read is Alan.
February 20, 2011 10:33PM
O.K., I watched the video. I understand the point she is trying to make. If we let the Republicans do away with collective bargaining/unions, all elections will now be won only by Republicans? The Democrats will cease to exist? I thought that is what an election is about, freedom at the polling place.

My professional world is a union free environment. In order for me to have qualified people working, I need to pay the going rate for what employees in my industry require (if I pay too low, they merely go to the next guy who pays better. Same with benefits.). Again, while I understand why unions were created for, it seems much of the major thrust of unions has been put into legislation for all of us. I have also watched what happened to the auto industry that almost collapsed under the weight of union demands. If the unions hadn't made concessions, GM, Ford and Chrysler would probably be but memories today.

I don't mean for this to end up as an anti union-pro union debate. There are many fine people with wonderful work ethics working today who are in unions across the nation. The thing is that the world is changing quite fast these days. Manufacturing has left the country (and in my opinion, this is a fool's errand-we will pay heavily for that move). The question remains, can municipalities function under the same financial requirements for employee benefits in a era of shrinking tax revenues? All this to preserve a person's right to strike? If I go on strike, my clientele merely go up the street to the next guy who does what I do. I don't have that ability, but then again, I knew that when I entered my chosen field of endeavor. Should policemen and hospital doctors be allowed to strike? I leave that debate to you......

alan
rkj
February 22, 2011 12:48AM
Quote
alanrw
O.K., I watched the video. I understand the point she is trying to make. If we let the Republicans do away with collective bargaining/unions, all elections will now be won only by Republicans? The Democrats will cease to exist? I thought that is what an election is about, freedom at the polling place.

My professional world is a union free environment. In order for me to have qualified people working, I need to pay the going rate for what employees in my industry require (if I pay too low, they merely go to the next guy who pays better. Same with benefits.). Again, while I understand why unions were created for, it seems much of the major thrust of unions has been put into legislation for all of us. I have also watched what happened to the auto industry that almost collapsed under the weight of union demands. If the unions hadn't made concessions, GM, Ford and Chrysler would probably be but memories today.

I don't mean for this to end up as an anti union-pro union debate. There are many fine people with wonderful work ethics working today who are in unions across the nation. The thing is that the world is changing quite fast these days. Manufacturing has left the country (and in my opinion, this is a fool's errand-we will pay heavily for that move). The question remains, can municipalities function under the same financial requirements for employee benefits in a era of shrinking tax revenues? All this to preserve a person's right to strike? If I go on strike, my clientele merely go up the street to the next guy who does what I do. I don't have that ability, but then again, I knew that when I entered my chosen field of endeavor. Should policemen and hospital doctors be allowed to strike? I leave that debate to you......

alan

All I know is the issue is not about money and is about workers rights.
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