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Egypt, what a happening.

Posted by rkj 
rkj
February 08, 2011 01:36PM
I know we're not supposed to talk about things like this here but I can't help feeling proud of those people trying to take their country back. What brave folks, I hope too many don't have to die for things to change and I do hope they change.

It's interesting, these days, when the whole world watches on these things. Kind of changes things- yeah internet thumbs up

No need to reply, just an old war horse kickin in his stall :furious:
February 08, 2011 03:18PM
That good ol' late 60's feeling again?
rkj
February 08, 2011 03:58PM
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Michiel 318iS
That good ol' late 60's feeling again?

I suppose, I came home from Vietnam in 1967 (a changed man) so I guess so :cloud:
February 08, 2011 07:34PM
I've seen a lot of things too and will chip in my $0.02 :stickpoke:

What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Wonder how long it will take Canada or the US folks to realise they will continue to be screwed by the government and the power people who run it; if they don't make it extremely clear they want change? Probably never happen since most of us have accepted the good life and supersizing :soapbox:
rkj
February 09, 2011 08:06AM
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Archeo-peteriX
I've seen a lot of things too and will chip in my $0.02 :stickpoke:

What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.

Wonder how long it will take Canada or the US folks to realise they will continue to be screwed by the government and the power people who run it; if they don't make it extremely clear they want change? Probably never happen since most of us have accepted the good life and supersizing :soapbox:

Yup, it's the real deal, people just fed up with how things have been handled for many many years and they're going to do something about it. The tricky thing is the sitting government isn't going to let the revolt go on much longer and the people don't look like they're going to give up either!

Now we have a classic struggle and it's going to get shitty! There will be major blood in the streets but that's usually how things change, although the army and police could present a strange twist to this goings on.

Too bad we, as a civilization, haven't learned much in the last 100 years. :hitwithrock:

Compared to these people, it looks like we have it pretty good... just sayin
February 09, 2011 09:59AM
The thing is that you don't want it to degenerate into a situation like Iraq where people start strapping bombs onto their children and sending them on their way. The extememists seem to always be waiting in the wings for this type of event and swoop in when the vacuum is created. Remember, in Iraq, the good people were supposed to be dancing in the streets much like France after we liberated them in WWII but it certainly didn't work out that way did it?

alan
February 09, 2011 12:47PM
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Archeo-peteriX
What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.
Could you email this to Mr Bush?

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Archeo-peteriX
Wonder how long it will take Canada or the US folks to realise they will continue to be screwed by the government and the power people who run it
At least you have a government. We've had elections last June (and I know very well as I had to be the chairman of our local election office) and still we don't have a new government, they're still arguing on who gets what.
February 09, 2011 12:51PM
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rkj
Too bad we, as a civilization, haven't learned much in the last 100 years. :hitwithrock:

Western civilisation? That would be a good idea!

Disappointing, isn't it? We think we are so good, but we aren't. Just by reading some old engineering stuff, I'm convinced certain people 100-150 year ago did more innovating inventions than they do now. And that's just in engineering.
February 09, 2011 01:45PM
Well, there is always this:

The Day the Earth Stood Still

An alien lands and tells the people of Earth that they must live peacefully or be destroyed as a danger to other planets.

Maybe this is what it would take but I don't think the insurgents would get the message. For some reason, they seem hell bent on killing each other.

alan
February 09, 2011 07:33PM
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Michiel 318iS
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Archeo-peteriX
What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.
Could you email this to Mr Bush?

Bush doesn't care...he's currently busy with criminal charges surrounding illegal treatment of war criminals and torture!
rkj
February 10, 2011 12:38PM
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Archeo-peteriX
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Michiel 318iS
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Archeo-peteriX
What I find most interesting is that it isn't religious extremists and this in countries that are predominantly Muslim!
These are regular people just like us who have had all they can stomach of their governments...they want change and know that voting isn't going to make it happen.
Could you email this to Mr Bush?

Bush doesn't care...he's currently busy with criminal charges surrounding illegal treatment of war criminals and torture!

Is that right, I thought Bama gave those criminals a pass... I wonder how the recent strikes are going to effect things in Egypt.
February 10, 2011 08:44PM
It will only end in a lot of mindless bloodshed...dictators or presidents for life, never give up the golden goose sad smiley

But, that is how real change happens...voting at the polls produces nothing but one flavour of bad guy or another sad smiley
Real change has to be fought for and won!
February 10, 2011 09:55PM
It will be a miracle if this is not co-opted by the bad guys and it turns out just like Iran. Normal people are just not organized well enough to make it work without tons of money and guns. Their former government made sure of that. The brotherhood will be given or steal enough to take over and run things if the people do not pay attention.

The more of this I see, the more it looks like large scale gang warfare played like a game of Risk by some very rich few gangsters.

Bob in Everett
rkj
February 10, 2011 11:06PM
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Bob in Everett
It will be a miracle if this is not co-opted by the bad guys and it turns out just like Iran. Normal people are just not organized well enough to make it work without tons of money and guns. Their former government made sure of that. The brotherhood will be given or steal enough to take over and run things if the people do not pay attention.

The more of this I see, the more it looks like large scale gang warfare played like a game of Risk by some very rich few gangsters.

It certainly doesn't look good for the folks but don't sell the people short, These people want a change in the worst way. Like Peter sez, you've gotta fight for it in the end, the rest is just bullshit.

In any event it should be something for the history books, I just hope the cost in lives are small. ish
rkj
February 11, 2011 11:44AM
Well, what ya know, Mubarak has finally stepped down and handed things over to the army. :dance: that was close.

Now the history books can be added to at last! Power to the peoplehot smiley
February 11, 2011 03:29PM
Wait, the final chapter has yet to emerge. Many times, middle eastern countries can implode in the absence of a strong leader. Lots of warring factions at play here. Shites, Sunnis, Coptic Christians, it could get ugly. Remember, even though Mubarak was a dictator, he never caused any trouble for the U.S., in fact, was a stabilizing force in the Mideast. Let's not forget the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas are still around and aren't real nice people.

I realize I am looking at this from a standpoint of what will benefit the U.S. the most but the alternatives don't seem to benefit us or the Egyptian people unless a true democracy emerges from the ashes..

alan
February 11, 2011 03:44PM
The people want democracy not a police state. That's what happens when the military takes over sad smiley

From the frying pan into the fire >:<(
February 11, 2011 04:33PM
I read an interesting analysis a while back that said Iran is really run by the Red Guard (military). The mullahs and Achmadinijad are merely window dressing. But Iran has oil it can convert to dollars. Egypt really doesn't have much to convert to dollars so they have been dependent on us for aid (which regrettably probably went to Mubarak's private offshore acct.) If the U.S. pulls out and stops the aid, it will be game on and anything can happen.

Personally, I would be surprised if a real democracy emerged as we have yet to see that in the Middle East (except Israel). My guess is the military will grab the power. Where they go with it is anybody's guess.

What I do know is Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood will NOT be stabilizing forces in this discussion. They are both pretty extreme.

alan
February 13, 2011 12:17AM
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Archeo-peteriX
The people want democracy not a police state. That's what happens when the military takes over sad smiley

From the frying pan into the fire >:<(

There are some examples in the middle east of the military doing the right thing. Turkey comes to mind. Their military tossed out the civil government a couple of times when it got too corrupt and ran new elections.

One nice thing about the indigenous military, they do not like to kill their own countrymen. It is made up of fathers and sons of the citizens so not likely to have a blood bath. When some other country sends in a military is when the blood really runs. Like Iraq and Afghanistan.

There are a couple of good ways to run a country. Divine right of kings has been used most often in history. Democracy never has worked because when the people figure out how to vote the public treasury into their own pocket, they will always do it. Dictatorship is a lot like gang warfare it appears to me. A lot of so called democracy has evolved into dictatorship.

The Republican form of government has only been tried a couple of places and the people have let it slip away both times. Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

Bob in Everett
February 14, 2011 09:30AM
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Bob in Everett

There are some examples in the middle east of the military doing the right thing. Turkey comes to mind. Their military tossed out the civil government a couple of times when it got too corrupt and ran new elections.

One nice thing about the indigenous military, they do not like to kill their own countrymen. It is made up of fathers and sons of the citizens so not likely to have a blood bath. When some other country sends in a military is when the blood really runs.

Amen to that! Those countries deserve better government, and find their own way...smileys with beer
It seems Algeria is next in the queue....
rkj
February 20, 2011 08:22AM
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Jose Pinto
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Bob in Everett

There are some examples in the middle east of the military doing the right thing. Turkey comes to mind. Their military tossed out the civil government a couple of times when it got too corrupt and ran new elections.

One nice thing about the indigenous military, they do not like to kill their own countrymen. It is made up of fathers and sons of the citizens so not likely to have a blood bath. When some other country sends in a military is when the blood really runs.

Amen to that! Those countries deserve better government, and find their own way...smileys with beer
It seems Algeria is next in the queue....

Unfortunately, the people in Bahrain have had a bad time of it; not all Rulers will go quietly so blood will run in the streets... The world's changing but there will be a price, there usually is.

I think about it happening here in the States, a lot of people are getting tired of the usual crap.... Now, more than ever we need some wisdom from the wheelhouse and all I see is people posturing for their own interests.

We finally get a president that's trying to help and all the people around him seem to make things harder. I don't get it and never have how people can be so ........ unhelpful.

I look forward to your letters!
February 20, 2011 09:24AM
Well, a couple of points here Rick. First, here in the states we are definitely seeing similar action in Wi. But the difference here is that as a nation, we are allowed to demonstrate without fear of government forces shooting into the crowds. We have a fairly long history of civil demonstration . Plus, our elections, for the most part aren't rigged, it just that the choices leave something to be desired from time to time.

alan
February 20, 2011 09:27AM
Surely you haven't forgotten Kent State already sad smiley
February 20, 2011 10:17AM
Not at all. Nor have I forgotten the Democratic Conventionn riots in 1968 or the many riots that occured in the south during the same period. I would like to think that what came out of those horrible events was a better non-lethal strategy of dealing with those situations without the loss of human life. Tear gas, water cannons, bean bag rounds etc. etc. etc.

The difference here is that I believe our government mourned those deaths and looked for a better way to handle those situations unlike Libya.

alan
rkj
February 20, 2011 10:37AM
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alanrw
Well, a couple of points here Rick. First, here in the states we are definitely seeing similar action in Wi. But the difference here is that as a nation, we are allowed to demonstrate without fear of government forces shooting into the crowds. We have a fairly long history of civil demonstration . Plus, our elections, for the most part aren't rigged, it just that the choices leave something to be desired from time to time.

alan

Alan, What is Wi please.
February 20, 2011 11:07AM
Wi.=Wisconsin. I guess the governor and Republican legislators are trying to make collective bargaining illegal for state employees. The the argument is that the state is broke ($25 billion in the hole) and can't afford 100% medical for state employees any longer. They want employees to participate in medical insurance and pension costs without the threat of a prolonged strike. Unfortunately, we may be seeing more of this across our nation as states realize they are broke and just can't afford this level of employee benefits anymore.

alan
rkj
February 20, 2011 12:01PM
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alanrw
Wi.=Wisconsin. I guess the governor and Republican legislators are trying to make collective bargaining illegal for state employees. The the argument is that the state is broke ($25 billion in the hole) and can't afford 100% medical for state employees any longer. They want employees to participate in medical insurance and pension costs without the threat of a prolonged strike. Unfortunately, we may be seeing more of this across our nation as states realize they are broke and just can't afford this level of employee benefits anymore.

alan

O right, thanks.

Medical benefits, it doesn't seem to be a priority these days. I'm amazed at what crappy care we have in this supposed wonderful country of ours, it's shameful and symbolic! In the winter here, I watch (mostly hear) the snow plows go on all night even if there's no snow on the roads, which is often the case. Then the roads are full of holes so the road crew can get busy. Can anybody get their head out of their ass and give a crap!

I have my doubts.
February 20, 2011 12:43PM
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rkj


... Can anybody get their head out of their ass and give a crap!

I have my doubts.

Sounds like they've been crapping with their heads up there :whistle:
rkj
February 20, 2011 03:39PM
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Archeo-peteriX
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rkj


... Can anybody get their head out of their ass and give a crap!

I have my doubts.

Sounds like they've been crapping with their heads up there :whistle:

Unfortunately, kindasorta :eyes:
rkj
February 20, 2011 05:19PM
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alanrw
Wi.=Wisconsin. I guess the governor and Republican legislators are trying to make collective bargaining illegal for state employees. The the argument is that the state is broke ($25 billion in the hole) and can't afford 100% medical for state employees any longer. They want employees to participate in medical insurance and pension costs without the threat of a prolonged strike. Unfortunately, we may be seeing more of this across our nation as states realize they are broke and just can't afford this level of employee benefits anymore.

alan

I was just listening to Rachel and I was surprised to find out that Wisconsin were the ones who started unemployment insurance and the 8 hour day, the 40 hour week and collective bargaining. Now the republicans want to bust the unions and have no collective bargaining- how does that happen?

Who puts these creeps in office and whose bidding are they doing? I just don't get it; I think we need to start over!
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