Gulf oil spill disaster 
Posted by rkj
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It never ceases to make me sick how, after these catastrophes nothing much happens; chemical plants still operate way too close to towns and oil companies get away with murder, literally and figuratively.
I'm with Peter; hang one of these jerks and set some kind of example that some one has, HAS to be responsible. The people in charge might, MIGHT think twice about how reckless they behave.
I hate to even think like this but jeepers, something has to make a difference.... somewhere 
60 minutes had the story weeks ago. Rick |
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I'm with you guys 100%...except for the whole killing thing.
I will point out one thing though. Just because the media doesn't cover this story as well as they should, doesn't give anyone the right to throw out perspective (not saying any of us has, yet). Here is some perspective. Of course, as they say "location location location". Still, the fact is that we care so much about how BP is handling this not because of how BP is handling it, but because it is effecting the US coast line. If it were off the coast of Africa effecting twice as many species, we might say we "care", but I doubt any of us would take the time to so anything as drastic as writing in a forum. I know I wouldn't, and I know that is sad. Funny how ideals don't always line u with action... Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't mean to offend anyone  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles 2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles 
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This is a shame.
Oil became so expensive, that makes viable searching it at places harder than ever, and there companies find the limits of technology. That kind of activity should be regulated and supervised closely, but then major companies are more power than most countries and they want profit no matter what... And it's even worse wqhen it happens in Africa or Asia, it only gets to the news when oil is allover half continent, and nobody dopes anything to contain the problem.
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And will get more expensive if said regulations and supervision are carried out. Ultimately, we decide how much risk we are willing to take by setting the price that we are willing to pay for energy. Since we insist on having 'cheap' oil, we pay the price or other countries pay the price. This type of thing has been happening for years, but not in our back yard, so we didn't mind, since it wasn't our problem and we just wanted cheap oil. Major companies might want profit no matter what, but we want cheap oil, no matter what. salut, Bob P. |
I don't agree Peter, I think this kind of crime (and this is a crime) should carry jail time..... The jailed Martha for gods sake. I think we all need a little prospective here (I do mean ALL of us)
This is the most awful crime cause it could be prevented or at least treated with more care in the first place; I don't care how much gas costs, these kinds of things can not happen anymore period! Humans, they think they're so above it all, burns me up :X |
Here are a few big problems with the punishment for a crime like this. 1. We don't know what steps would have been needed to cause a guaranteed prevention. 2. We don't know exactly what malicious steps were taken to cause it. 3. Black and White, he did or didn't, are easy things to pin point. What do you do when the problem is a culmination of 100 people's day to day choices? 4. It's easy to look at this and say "This is terrible". Any thinking human being will say this is not a net positive. However is there a law against any one individuals actions? And in the end, will stringing the entire decision making tree of BP out to try by there ethic lacking toes really help the situation, or prevent it from happening again? It's not as if individual humans willing to risk life, limb, and other people is a new development in human history. I really wish the entire situation was cut and dry, and we could easily point a finger. But I doubt that will be the case. Perhaps we can settle for "Who is to blame more", but if we do that, we can't justifiably put the weight of the entire disaster on their shoulders alone. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles 2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles
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I know, it's almost impossible to assign blame on these scoundrels but it Should be possible. If you watched the 60 minutes show the guy there was telling how it all happened, one point he made that blew me away was "someone nudged the up joystick while the thing was in the locked position" and that screwed the seal up. At that point they still didn't do anything safe; they just kept on till it blew up killing innocent people; that's murder my friends. No fail-safe, no special procedure for these controls; a two year old could have designed this thing better. I'm sorry, I think deep oil drilling has to be against the law; it just can't be made safe! screw the price. It'll get the alternative energy sources online that much faster 
Rick |
It isn't so much a matter of who is to blame but rather who is responsible. In an organization the size of BP, the responsibilities lie at the top. Restitution and punishment go hand in hand and the guys running the show are the ones who must shoulder the burden; it's why they get all those huge salaries, bonus packages, executive incentives and stock options. If these guys walk away scott free then there is no deterrent to others down the road and the situation will repeat itself. Along with the cleanup job I suggested, there should also be jail time; as Rick suggests; because negligence, in this case was a criminal act. |
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Rachel had an interesting show today; there could be fines, unbelievable high fines per barrel in the water. Also BP stock took a huge dive today, so they'll probably take a dive and we're back to square one... or maybe not, can you say Gulf Bailout
the latest attempt at slowing the flow failed today; more good news.
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On the flip side, Billions of dollars in equipment and many human lives were lost before and after going to the moon. Part of that loss is human error, but as with any extremely sophisticated process, sometimes the variables just don't line up in your favor. The scenario you mention is also a "by the book, according to plan" event. We've certainly done many oil operations that went according to plan, and it worked out very well. It's when the shit hits the fan that you find out how well you designed your system for a particular set of failures. Building an extremely complicated device once, for one time use, is one thing. It's a whole other feat to build it for quality, time, and repetitive use. And the more complicated the system, the easier it is for it to fail in complicated and unforeseeable ways. I'll reference modern cars as my example, since we are on a car forum
As an aside, I love playing devil's advocate, because I enjoy good conversation (and learning from it) more than silent agreement. Cheers! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles 2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles
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This time, the plan was not followed. There were warnings and the plan should have shut the whole operation down before it blew up. I don't classify this as human error; rather a choice to ignore the danger signals and continue pumping oil. The oil companies are only partly to blame as you point out...we are culpable because we continue to support their sloth by driving gas guuzzling behemoths
Yes, by today's standards, our beloved E30s are just as bad as the big SUVs for fuel economy. |
Peter! Get you car fixed! Or chipped. I'm consistently getting 26-28mpg on the freeway in my 325i, which is a far cry from today's average SUV and sports car. Certainly there are vehicles that regularly do 50+, but let's not compare our babies to SUV ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles 2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles
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The iX is a little thirstier than the RWD models and it is sunning to spec as far as mileage goes; it averages 23mpg(Imperial Gallon). I do very little freeway driving any more; mostly city stop and go but mostly country roads with posted speed limits of 60kmh...everybody goes 80kmh(50mph) though. The American car(SUV) makers must be lying about their fuel mileage claims them; Chevy comes to mind with claims of 31mpg hiway from their big Silverado! No matter what fossil fule burning machine we drive; we are not doing the environment any good
Give me electric or provide me with bicycle only roads! 
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Wait, people are buying SUV's new? 
Actually, I often times forget that more than a hand full of cars were made past the 90's. I still think it's like 2002 or something
I'm thinking of my friends late 90's Suburban that gets 10-12 mg city, and 17mg freeway. There are also a bunch of "Sort Utility Vehicles" out there that are nothing more than really shiny large cars. But the Silverado is a pretty good example of a large SUV, and if it gets 31mg on the freeway, power to them. I'm too lazy to look, but I wonder if those claims are due to them putting a tiny engine in one of the models?
I'm with you there. Here is my ideal electric car. Maybe I'll pick one up used in a decade or two ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles 2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles
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Oh yeh...the large SUV is still being made and selling like hot cakes.
Try Cadillac Escalade and Licoln Navigator along with a bevy of machines built on those same platforms with the badges changed! A lot of people don't care about anything but image and how large their 'extensions' look
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So, it's been a day to think things over since his speech and I must say (and I'm one of Bamas biggest fans) his speech was a vague gesture at best and insult to prayer at worst. I wish I had been talked to like I was an adult. It's weird, when the health bill came down to the wire, as feeble as it is, he talked the real talk of grown-ups; I felt like this guy (Obama) was really into it, and us.
Now, with a major horrendous catastrophe on our hands he's got about as much force as my left toe.... An opportunity lost, or should I say another opportunity lost! Come on Bama, show us the real you, the pissed off, lets do something you! This is one veteran starting to look down at his feet again, dam it to hell....
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I've heard a lot of commentary on his speech, mostly addressing how Obama doesn't have much of an "angry" or "pissed off" face. Naturally, that doesn't mean he isn't boiling inside, or won't do something about it. I know many people who don't show articular emotions on their face, be it sadness, amusement, joy, or anger. Not that he isn't an extreme case, but it's not as if our last few residence ever got hopping mad on camera. Walk softly and carry a big stick
While I would like to see Obama look upset about this, but if I'm honest with myself I know that desire stems from my wanting to know he cares. To that end, I'd rather he do something about it, rather than just show some emotion on camera, act like he cares, and then do nothing. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles 2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles
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Sadly, it is quite apparent that big oil has this administration securely in it's pockets just like the last one :X
I'm not holding my breath for anything to come from the government. Just like Katrina-gate; there are thousands of people willing and wanting to help with the clean up but they are being told they cannot and may be charged with offenses if caught! Each morning on the news we see ample examples that BP and the government are lying while doing little to either clean up or stop the damn leak. This thing is going to spew oil into the gulf for months if not longer. What really scares me is that BP is one of the biggest companies working the 'tar sands' in Alberta. We already know that their extraction methods are destroying a huge piece of the environment up there...and it is all sanctioned by our own (bought and payed for) puppet government 
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