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A few bail out questions, please.

Posted by rkj 
rkj
December 12, 2008 12:03PM
At poker last night a few of the guys told me that the wall street bail out money was missing in action; nobody knows where it is or where it went. Could this be true, all that money missing? Now the people should be happy with another bailout for the car companies, the same companies that should have been repositioning and restructuring themselves years and years ago.

It feels like this country is falling into a pattern, and not a very good one if we all can not be accountable and be responsible for what we bring to the table, or take away from it for that matter.

Are we, and should we, be committed to these bailouts when there is little or no accountability?



perseverance furthers
December 12, 2008 12:31PM
Word on the street is that the money was used to clear their balance sheets. The intent was that the money be put into play to free up credit but evidently, someone forgot to put that criteria in when the money was released.

While we are on that topic, why did the govt give out $700 billion without a blink and now they are hammering the hell out of the Big 3 over a measly $30 billion? And am I the only one who thinks it is funny that the Big 3 are being chastised for financial irresponsibility by the most fiscally irresponsible body (congress) in the nation? These guys blow trillions and have their panties in a knot over a few billion? Why are the Wall street big shots more deserving than the good people of Michigan and many other states who will lose it all if the Big 3 isn't bailed out? Of course, giving them the $ is no guarantee sales of their products will take off........jeez, how did things get so messed up?

alan
December 12, 2008 01:12PM
Quote
alanrw
Word on the street is that the money was used to clear their balance sheets. The intent was that the money be put into play to free up credit but evidently, someone forgot to put that criteria in when the money was released.

While we are on that topic, why did the govt give out $700 billion without a blink and now they are hammering the hell out of the Big 3 over a measly $30 billion? And am I the only one who thinks it is funny that the Big 3 are being chastised for financial irresponsibility by the most fiscally irresponsible body (congress) in the nation? These guys blow trillions and have their panties in a knot over a few billion? Why are the Wall street big shots more deserving than the good people of Michigan and many other states who will lose it all if the Big 3 isn't bailed out? Of course, giving them the $ is no guarantee sales of their products will take off........jeez, how did things get so messed up?

alan

Bail outs never do what they are intended to do; the only prolong the agony :X

Tariffs and false taxes barring trade don't work either. Reagan gave the high tech electronics industry to the Japanese on a platinum platter because the US manufacturers couldn't compete and had nothing to fill the void that the protectionist trade practices caused.
Bailing out the Big 3 will not produce competitive vehicles; it will only ensure CEO bonuses and golden parachutes can be paid out when the failure is complete.

Just look at all the ridiculous tv ads the Big 3 are now running with Daimler being the worst. They are pushing ever bigger gas guzzling crap at the very people who can no longer even get credit to buy these things.

I feel for the auto workers but there is going to be a world of hurt for a while. There have been massive auto layoffs in the past and there will be again but this time the Big 3 have to change the business model or it will be the end of the American domestic auto industry.

The import makers who have plants in the US will pick up the slack and ultimately employ many of those who loose their jobs.

The Wall street bail out money is gone and any trace of it will be carefully hidden. Not one thin dime will ever go to what it was intended to. Those fat bastard CEOs who raped the financial industry are $700 billion fatter today :X

Stop the bleeding...if it isn't already too late.
rkj
December 12, 2008 01:56PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
The Wall street bail out money is gone and any trace of it will be carefully hidden. Not one thin dime will ever go to what it was intended to. Those fat bastard CEOs who raped the financial industry are $700 billion fatter today :X

Stop the bleeding...if it isn't already too late.

Peter, you mean to tell me that all that money (god, I can't even imagine such an amount) for the wall street bailout is not accounted for, in any way? I have a hard time believing that even with the general state of things today. Is this a bush induced thing?
December 12, 2008 02:55PM
Quote
rkj
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
The Wall street bail out money is gone and any trace of it will be carefully hidden. Not one thin dime will ever go to what it was intended to. Those fat bastard CEOs who raped the financial industry are $700 billion fatter today :X

Stop the bleeding...if it isn't already too late.

Peter, you mean to tell me that all that money (god, I can't even imagine such an amount) for the wall street bailout is not accounted for, in any way? I have a hard time believing that even with the general state of things today. Is this a bush induced thing?

Yep, it's all gone and not one single requirement was put in place to monitor where this money went. Bush and buddies pushed it through but the congress and senate are also responsible.

The system is broken sad smiley

200 years is the average for empires before they devour themselves and get replaced by new ones. We are watching a living example of this right now.
December 12, 2008 03:54PM
You could very well be correct Peter, every empire fails. But answer me this, we have done a first rate job of shutting down factory after factory and sent them overseas. What exactly is the downside of protectionist tariffs which would level the playing field thereby allowing durable goods to be made domestically, thereby employing the middle class which is the economic engine of this country?

alan
rkj
December 12, 2008 04:51PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
rkj
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
The Wall street bail out money is gone and any trace of it will be carefully hidden. Not one thin dime will ever go to what it was intended to. Those fat bastard CEOs who raped the financial industry are $700 billion fatter today :X

Stop the bleeding...if it isn't already too late.

Peter, you mean to tell me that all that money (god, I can't even imagine such an amount) for the wall street bailout is not accounted for, in any way? I have a hard time believing that even with the general state of things today. Is this a bush induced thing?

Yep, it's all gone and not one single requirement was put in place to monitor where this money went. Bush and buddies pushed it through but the congress and senate are also responsible.

The system is broken sad smiley

200 years is the average for empires before they devour themselves and get replaced by new ones. We are watching a living example of this right now.

I'm at a complete loss for words, but feelings are a whole other matter sad smiley
December 12, 2008 05:26PM
Quote
alanrw
You could very well be correct Peter, every empire fails. But answer me this, we have done a first rate job of shutting down factory after factory and sent them overseas. What exactly is the downside of protectionist tariffs which would level the playing field thereby allowing durable goods to be made domestically, thereby employing the middle class which is the economic engine of this country?

alan

It only works in text books and imaginary places. The money grubbers have found all the loop holes that allowed them to send our jobs overseas. Corporations were actually encouraged to do so :X

The Big 3 can't even sell cars when their prices are already 25% to 40% lower than the imports. Putting higher tariffs on imports won't work anymore because most of the imports are manufactured right here in North America.

It's simply too late to close that barn door. The only way to get the business back is for the automakers to start building cars that will compete with the imports. That means design, engineering, quality, reliability and price have to be as good or better.
Do you see that happening any time soon...just look at the latest new ads on the tube for even bigger more poorly built gas sucking pollution machines that Detroit is spewing out. They don't even have enough buyers as it is but they continue to flood the dealer lots with this crap.

Protectionism simply doesn't do anything but make a few executives at the top a pile of ill gotten gains while the rest of us suffer :X

With the high tech jobs that were sold to the lowest bidders in China, India, Bulgaria and all the other 'outsourcers; went the disposable income that enabled people to buy domestic goods. Now that we are becoming a country of mostly service industry employees, we cannot afford to shop at Nordstroms or even Sears...we are left with Target, Walmart and the other big box outlets for out needs.

Nobody is willing to take a little bit of short term discomfort to get things turned around(note: the auto worker unions killed the bail out because they aren't willing to back away from the trough either).
We have become too fat(literally) and complacent. That's why the guys at the top can get away with stealing America's/Canada's wealth from right under our noses sad smiley
rkj
December 12, 2008 05:41PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
alanrw
You could very well be correct Peter, every empire fails. But answer me this, we have done a first rate job of shutting down factory after factory and sent them overseas. What exactly is the downside of protectionist tariffs which would level the playing field thereby allowing durable goods to be made domestically, thereby employing the middle class which is the economic engine of this country?

alan

It only works in text books and imaginary places. The money grubbers have found all the loop holes that allowed them to send our jobs overseas. Corporations were actually encouraged to do so :X

The Big 3 can't even sell cars when their prices are already 25% to 40% lower than the imports. Putting higher tariffs on imports won't work anymore because most of the imports are manufactured right here in North America.

It's simply too late to close that barn door. The only way to get the business back is for the automakers to start building cars that will compete with the imports. That means design, engineering, quality, reliability and price have to be as good or better.
Do you see that happening any time soon...just look at the latest new ads on the tube for even bigger more poorly built gas sucking pollution machines that Detroit is spewing out. They don't even have enough buyers as it is but they continue to flood the dealer lots with this crap.

Protectionism simply doesn't do anything but make a few executives at the top a pile of ill gotten gains while the rest of us suffer :X

With the high tech jobs that were sold to the lowest bidders in China, India, Bulgaria and all the other 'outsourcers; went the disposable income that enabled people to buy domestic goods. Now that we are becoming a country of mostly service industry employees, we cannot afford to shop at Nordstroms or even Sears...we are left with Target, Walmart and the other big box outlets for out needs.

Nobody is willing to take a little bit of short term discomfort to get things turned around(note: the auto worker unions killed the bail out because they aren't willing to back away from the trough either).
We have become too fat(literally) and complacent. That's why the guys at the top can get away with stealing America's/Canada's wealth from right under our noses sad smiley

I'm getting all my pieces together for this Fiat's motor (actually the last four months but who's counting), and I'm using a fuel filter from, of all cars, an E30. I pulled it out of the box and whats in the small print, this is a Mann filter mind you, made in china.

As Jackie would say, "what a revoltin development dis is"
December 12, 2008 05:47PM
Quote
rkj
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
alanrw
You could very well be correct Peter, every empire fails. But answer me this, we have done a first rate job of shutting down factory after factory and sent them overseas. What exactly is the downside of protectionist tariffs which would level the playing field thereby allowing durable goods to be made domestically, thereby employing the middle class which is the economic engine of this country?

alan

It only works in text books and imaginary places. The money grubbers have found all the loop holes that allowed them to send our jobs overseas. Corporations were actually encouraged to do so :X

The Big 3 can't even sell cars when their prices are already 25% to 40% lower than the imports. Putting higher tariffs on imports won't work anymore because most of the imports are manufactured right here in North America.

It's simply too late to close that barn door. The only way to get the business back is for the automakers to start building cars that will compete with the imports. That means design, engineering, quality, reliability and price have to be as good or better.
Do you see that happening any time soon...just look at the latest new ads on the tube for even bigger more poorly built gas sucking pollution machines that Detroit is spewing out. They don't even have enough buyers as it is but they continue to flood the dealer lots with this crap.

Protectionism simply doesn't do anything but make a few executives at the top a pile of ill gotten gains while the rest of us suffer :X

With the high tech jobs that were sold to the lowest bidders in China, India, Bulgaria and all the other 'outsourcers; went the disposable income that enabled people to buy domestic goods. Now that we are becoming a country of mostly service industry employees, we cannot afford to shop at Nordstroms or even Sears...we are left with Target, Walmart and the other big box outlets for out needs.

Nobody is willing to take a little bit of short term discomfort to get things turned around(note: the auto worker unions killed the bail out because they aren't willing to back away from the trough either).
We have become too fat(literally) and complacent. That's why the guys at the top can get away with stealing America's/Canada's wealth from right under our noses sad smiley

I'm getting all my pieces together for this Fiat's motor (actually the last four months but who's counting), and I'm using a fuel filter from, of all cars, an E30. I pulled it out of the box and whats in the small print, this is a Mann filter mind you, made in china.

As Jackie would say, "what a revoltin development dis is"

Same with the new radiator I had to put in the Honda. You can hardly even find Japanese made parts in Japanese products any more :crying:
rkj
December 12, 2008 06:17PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
rkj
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
alanrw
You could very well be correct Peter, every empire fails. But answer me this, we have done a first rate job of shutting down factory after factory and sent them overseas. What exactly is the downside of protectionist tariffs which would level the playing field thereby allowing durable goods to be made domestically, thereby employing the middle class which is the economic engine of this country?

alan

It only works in text books and imaginary places. The money grubbers have found all the loop holes that allowed them to send our jobs overseas. Corporations were actually encouraged to do so :X

The Big 3 can't even sell cars when their prices are already 25% to 40% lower than the imports. Putting higher tariffs on imports won't work anymore because most of the imports are manufactured right here in North America.

It's simply too late to close that barn door. The only way to get the business back is for the automakers to start building cars that will compete with the imports. That means design, engineering, quality, reliability and price have to be as good or better.
Do you see that happening any time soon...just look at the latest new ads on the tube for even bigger more poorly built gas sucking pollution machines that Detroit is spewing out. They don't even have enough buyers as it is but they continue to flood the dealer lots with this crap.

Protectionism simply doesn't do anything but make a few executives at the top a pile of ill gotten gains while the rest of us suffer :X

With the high tech jobs that were sold to the lowest bidders in China, India, Bulgaria and all the other 'outsourcers; went the disposable income that enabled people to buy domestic goods. Now that we are becoming a country of mostly service industry employees, we cannot afford to shop at Nordstroms or even Sears...we are left with Target, Walmart and the other big box outlets for out needs.

Nobody is willing to take a little bit of short term discomfort to get things turned around(note: the auto worker unions killed the bail out because they aren't willing to back away from the trough either).
We have become too fat(literally) and complacent. That's why the guys at the top can get away with stealing America's/Canada's wealth from right under our noses sad smiley

I'm getting all my pieces together for this Fiat's motor (actually the last four months but who's counting), and I'm using a fuel filter from, of all cars, an E30. I pulled it out of the box and whats in the small print, this is a Mann filter mind you, made in china.

As Jackie would say, "what a revoltin development dis is"

Same with the new radiator I had to put in the Honda. You can hardly even find Japanese made parts in Japanese products any more :crying:

Found Some insight here, but still searching

[video.google.com]#
December 12, 2008 08:24PM
I heard a very interesting analysis tonight on CNN. This guy went on to say when Reagan took office, we were the biggest importer of raw materials, biggest exporter of finished goods and had a pretty big trade surplus. As the next 4 administrations evolved, all of the forementioned items did a 180. Today we are the biggest exporter of raw materials, biggest importer of finished goods and a huge trade deficit.....kinda like a third world nation.


sad, truly sad. It sure would appear we have been sold out by the aristocracy.

alan
December 13, 2008 12:38AM
Interesting commentary above...Some of the "bailout" money went to buy bank stocks so there is some accountability. Still a bad idea. A lot of it is just unsecured loans which will be hard to collect. Congress asked for an accounting but Bernanke refused to give it so they cut off the money until they get a say in it. Their track record in spending sensibly is not very good either.

Bob in Everett
December 15, 2008 11:21PM
I got this in the mail today....

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the economic recovery package. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you may know, the bailout package itself has been largely ignored as the Treasury and Federal Reserve have given out nearly $2 trillion of taxpayer dollars without disclosing to Congress or to the public who the recipients of those funds are. The White House has, in fact, missed its deadlines for reporting to Congress who the recipients of those funds are, and oversight positions created to track and justify the spending of those funds have gone unfilled. This constitutes an abuse of power that may have been avoided had Congress taken more time and thought in drafting the bailout legislation. Repeatedly during legislative negotiations, I expressed my frustrations with the lack of oversight and accountability included in the enacted legislation and ultimately, was firm in casting a "no" vote twice against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act.

Unfortunately, the imperative for oversight over these funds has generally been ignored. Beneficiaries such as Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and AIG have consequently abused these funds by paying for lavish executive retreats and setting aside $108 billion thus far for employee compensation and bonuses. These unconscionable uses of these funds is a slap in the face of the American taxpayer, and my constituents, who work hard for their money and expect that it will be used well by the federal government that is putting their dollars squarely at risk.

Rest assured I am committed to working toward ensuring that taxpayer money is used responsibly to curtail the widespread impacts of the financial crisis and not benefit the irresponsible few. I support ongoing hearings and investigations in this matter and look forward to further addressing these matters with my colleagues.

Please continue to contact me about the issues that concern you, as I both need and welcome your thoughts and ideas. I encourage you to contact me via email, telephone, or fax, because security measures in the House cause delays in receiving postal mail. For more information on my activities in Congress, and for information on services that my office can provide, please visit my website at [www.house.gov]. If you would like to subscribe to my email updates, please visit [www.house.gov].

Very truly yours,

JAY INSLEE
Member of Congress

JRI/et

Confirmation# 2771831


****************************************************************
DISCLAIMER
I cannot guarantee the integrity of the text of this letter if it was not sent to you directly from my Congressional Email Account: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov. If you have any questions about the validity of this message, please email me at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov or call my Washington, DC office at: 202-225-6311. If you would like to be removed from my email update list, please email me your name and address at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov and type "REMOVE" in the subject line.
****************************************************************



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2008 11:23PM by Bob in Everett.
December 16, 2008 11:13AM
.......more smoke up the ol tailpipe...................

alan
rkj
December 16, 2008 11:21AM
Quote
Bob in Everett
I got this in the mail today....

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the economic recovery package. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you may know, the bailout package itself has been largely ignored as the Treasury and Federal Reserve have given out nearly $2 trillion of taxpayer dollars without disclosing to Congress or to the public who the recipients of those funds are. The White House has, in fact, missed its deadlines for reporting to Congress who the recipients of those funds are, and oversight positions created to track and justify the spending of those funds have gone unfilled. This constitutes an abuse of power that may have been avoided had Congress taken more time and thought in drafting the bailout legislation. Repeatedly during legislative negotiations, I expressed my frustrations with the lack of oversight and accountability included in the enacted legislation and ultimately, was firm in casting a "no" vote twice against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act.

Unfortunately, the imperative for oversight over these funds has generally been ignored. Beneficiaries such as Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and AIG have consequently abused these funds by paying for lavish executive retreats and setting aside $108 billion thus far for employee compensation and bonuses. These unconscionable uses of these funds is a slap in the face of the American taxpayer, and my constituents, who work hard for their money and expect that it will be used well by the federal government that is putting their dollars squarely at risk.

Rest assured I am committed to working toward ensuring that taxpayer money is used responsibly to curtail the widespread impacts of the financial crisis and not benefit the irresponsible few. I support ongoing hearings and investigations in this matter and look forward to further addressing these matters with my colleagues.

Please continue to contact me about the issues that concern you, as I both need and welcome your thoughts and ideas. I encourage you to contact me via email, telephone, or fax, because security measures in the House cause delays in receiving postal mail. For more information on my activities in Congress, and for information on services that my office can provide, please visit my website at [www.house.gov]. If you would like to subscribe to my email updates, please visit [www.house.gov].

Very truly yours,

JAY INSLEE
Member of Congress

JRI/et

Confirmation# 2771831


****************************************************************
DISCLAIMER
I cannot guarantee the integrity of the text of this letter if it was not sent to you directly from my Congressional Email Account: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov. If you have any questions about the validity of this message, please email me at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov or call my Washington, DC office at: 202-225-6311. If you would like to be removed from my email update list, please email me your name and address at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov and type "REMOVE" in the subject line.
****************************************************************

Holy crap, maybe those guys at poker were right.



perseverance furthers
rkj
December 20, 2008 07:40AM
Quote
Bob in Everett
I got this in the mail today....

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the economic recovery package. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you may know, the bailout package itself has been largely ignored as the Treasury and Federal Reserve have given out nearly $2 trillion of taxpayer dollars without disclosing to Congress or to the public who the recipients of those funds are. The White House has, in fact, missed its deadlines for reporting to Congress who the recipients of those funds are, and oversight positions created to track and justify the spending of those funds have gone unfilled. This constitutes an abuse of power that may have been avoided had Congress taken more time and thought in drafting the bailout legislation. Repeatedly during legislative negotiations, I expressed my frustrations with the lack of oversight and accountability included in the enacted legislation and ultimately, was firm in casting a "no" vote twice against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act.

Unfortunately, the imperative for oversight over these funds has generally been ignored. Beneficiaries such as Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and AIG have consequently abused these funds by paying for lavish executive retreats and setting aside $108 billion thus far for employee compensation and bonuses. These unconscionable uses of these funds is a slap in the face of the American taxpayer, and my constituents, who work hard for their money and expect that it will be used well by the federal government that is putting their dollars squarely at risk.

Rest assured I am committed to working toward ensuring that taxpayer money is used responsibly to curtail the widespread impacts of the financial crisis and not benefit the irresponsible few. I support ongoing hearings and investigations in this matter and look forward to further addressing these matters with my colleagues.

Please continue to contact me about the issues that concern you, as I both need and welcome your thoughts and ideas. I encourage you to contact me via email, telephone, or fax, because security measures in the House cause delays in receiving postal mail. For more information on my activities in Congress, and for information on services that my office can provide, please visit my website at [www.house.gov]. If you would like to subscribe to my email updates, please visit [www.house.gov].

Very truly yours,

JAY INSLEE
Member of Congress

JRI/et

Confirmation# 2771831


****************************************************************
DISCLAIMER
I cannot guarantee the integrity of the text of this letter if it was not sent to you directly from my Congressional Email Account: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov. If you have any questions about the validity of this message, please email me at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov or call my Washington, DC office at: 202-225-6311. If you would like to be removed from my email update list, please email me your name and address at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov and type "REMOVE" in the subject line.
****************************************************************

Wow Bob, you wrote your congressman?, cool. I wrote mine and got wonderful results a few years ago when the Vets denied me medicine I needed.

So folks, now that we've started bailing out the car companies (yeah Ford), man, where will that end!, what are we doing, just printing more money?

That can't be a good thing sad smiley
December 20, 2008 10:51AM
Quote
rkj
Quote
Bob in Everett
I got this in the mail today....

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the economic recovery package. I appreciate hearing from you.

As you may know, the bailout package itself has been largely ignored as the Treasury and Federal Reserve have given out nearly $2 trillion of taxpayer dollars without disclosing to Congress or to the public who the recipients of those funds are. The White House has, in fact, missed its deadlines for reporting to Congress who the recipients of those funds are, and oversight positions created to track and justify the spending of those funds have gone unfilled. This constitutes an abuse of power that may have been avoided had Congress taken more time and thought in drafting the bailout legislation. Repeatedly during legislative negotiations, I expressed my frustrations with the lack of oversight and accountability included in the enacted legislation and ultimately, was firm in casting a "no" vote twice against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act.

Unfortunately, the imperative for oversight over these funds has generally been ignored. Beneficiaries such as Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs and AIG have consequently abused these funds by paying for lavish executive retreats and setting aside $108 billion thus far for employee compensation and bonuses. These unconscionable uses of these funds is a slap in the face of the American taxpayer, and my constituents, who work hard for their money and expect that it will be used well by the federal government that is putting their dollars squarely at risk.

Rest assured I am committed to working toward ensuring that taxpayer money is used responsibly to curtail the widespread impacts of the financial crisis and not benefit the irresponsible few. I support ongoing hearings and investigations in this matter and look forward to further addressing these matters with my colleagues.

Please continue to contact me about the issues that concern you, as I both need and welcome your thoughts and ideas. I encourage you to contact me via email, telephone, or fax, because security measures in the House cause delays in receiving postal mail. For more information on my activities in Congress, and for information on services that my office can provide, please visit my website at [www.house.gov]. If you would like to subscribe to my email updates, please visit [www.house.gov].

Very truly yours,

JAY INSLEE
Member of Congress

JRI/et

Confirmation# 2771831


****************************************************************
DISCLAIMER
I cannot guarantee the integrity of the text of this letter if it was not sent to you directly from my Congressional Email Account: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov. If you have any questions about the validity of this message, please email me at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov or call my Washington, DC office at: 202-225-6311. If you would like to be removed from my email update list, please email me your name and address at: Jay.Inslee@mail.house.gov and type "REMOVE" in the subject line.
****************************************************************

Wow Bob, you wrote your congressman?, cool. I wrote mine and got wonderful results a few years ago when the Vets denied me medicine I needed.

So folks, now that we've started bailing out the car companies (yeah Ford), man, where will that end!, what are we doing, just printing more money?

That can't be a good thing sad smiley

I recently saw pictures on the news of people scavenging through the garbage in Zimbabwe...they were tossing fist fulls of money aside looking for anything they could eat. The government had printed so much money that inflation had caused the price of a loaf of bread to rise to over $100,000 ZD sad smiley

Yesterday the US senate finally passed the bail out to the Big 3 just as I knew they would...political pressure, bribes and fear mongering have that affect sad smiley

Canada also passed a bill to bail out the BIG 3 up here but surprisingly, Ford of Canada has said 'no thanks, we're doing just fine' eye popping smiley
So GM and Daimler will get $4.4 Billion each...I think that is more than the Big 3 each end up with in the US...tell me our government isn't sleeping with the CEOs of those thieving pirates!

Coincidentally, I saw two new ads this morning from GM and Daimler...both introducing bigger, heavier, more powerful pick up trucks. The ads are aimed squarely at the very people who can't afford them but will still take on huge debt to have these penis extensions.

So, we can see that the new business plan(more of the same that brought them to this state in the first place) is in place and they will be back in 3 months for more of the tax payers money :X
December 20, 2008 09:27PM
Seems like most of you that have commented on the so called bail out understand the consequences are going to be inflation and theft of our savings because of it. It is no wonder most folks do not understand what happens. I looked up inflation in the dictionary on my desk and it defines it as an increase in prices and wages. Nothing said about the creation of fiat money by government edict being the cause.

Bob in Everett
rkj
December 21, 2008 11:01AM
Quote
Bob in Everett
. Nothing said about the creation of fiat money by government edict being the cause.

Bob in Everett

Bob, please explain.
December 22, 2008 07:48PM
Inflation is a wonderful wealth transfer mechanism. It transfers wealth from those who save to those who borrow. Those losing it hardly can tell what happened.

It takes a little study to get through all the retoric on the major media. There are several books out on how the Federal Reserve Bank creates money out of government debt. Most simplistically, the Government just prints it. The Federal Reserve Bank makes a computer entry and creates it out of nothing.*

The problem is that creating new money dilutes the value of all that already in circulation. Any savings one has will buy less in the future than it would have if it was spent instead of storing it in a bank. The interest paid on it does not quite make up for the loss in value will have in the future (and those interest payments are taxable income). The old consumer price index used to measure this loss in value for us but the numbers were pretty depressing so the government stopped reporting it a few years ago.

So, it transfers wealth from savers to borrowers; who is the largest borrower in the world?

* The Paper Aristocracy and The Creature From Jekyl Island.

Bob in Everett
December 30, 2008 01:24PM
Hey, a few elephants and lion and the great ole US of A could pass as another province of my beloved country...South Africa, seems like it is going to more like home than I imagined, when I come and visit ya all next July, hey I might even get even money for my Rand to Dollar. :wink:
Difference is the appathy here, we get shafted and are expected to supply our own vasaline, with every thrust we just shake our shoulders and lament "what can we do"
I would hate to be on the wrong side of 300 000 000 American tax payers with a hair trigger in the pissed off position.:X

Oh, and by the way R100 000 for a loaf of bread is small change, try this for size.........


When the doo doo hit the fan and they lost a trillion or so off wall street, how do you quantify that sort of money, to us it just a number with a whole line of zeros, one guy summed it up for me, he said that if you spent a Million Dollars every day since the birth of Christ, you would only be at 75% of what these clowns blew in a day or two........now that is a scary thought.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E30'S AREN'T BUILT, THEY'RE CAUGHT IN THE WILD!!!



When in doubt, use full throttle,
it may not improve the situation, but it will end the suspence.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2008 01:57PM by Flyboy.
December 31, 2008 11:22PM
Quote
Flyboy
Hey, a few elephants and lion and the great ole US of A could pass as another province of my beloved country...South Africa, seems like it is going to more like home than I imagined, when I come and visit ya all next July, hey I might even get even money for my Rand to Dollar. :wink:
Difference is the appathy here, we get shafted and are expected to supply our own vasaline, with every thrust we just shake our shoulders and lament "what can we do"
I would hate to be on the wrong side of 300 000 000 American tax payers with a hair trigger in the pissed off position.:X

Oh, and by the way R100 000 for a loaf of bread is small change, try this for size.........


When the doo doo hit the fan and they lost a trillion or so off wall street, how do you quantify that sort of money, to us it just a number with a whole line of zeros, one guy summed it up for me, he said that if you spent a Million Dollars every day since the birth of Christ, you would only be at 75% of what these clowns blew in a day or two........now that is a scary thought.

Flyboy,
Is that a real bill you have pictured?

Bob in Everett
January 01, 2009 12:39AM
Quote
Bob in Everett
Quote
Flyboy
Hey, a few elephants and lion and the great ole US of A could pass as another province of my beloved country...South Africa, seems like it is going to more like home than I imagined, when I come and visit ya all next July, hey I might even get even money for my Rand to Dollar. :wink:
Difference is the appathy here, we get shafted and are expected to supply our own vasaline, with every thrust we just shake our shoulders and lament "what can we do"
I would hate to be on the wrong side of 300 000 000 American tax payers with a hair trigger in the pissed off position.:X

Oh, and by the way R100 000 for a loaf of bread is small change, try this for size.........


When the doo doo hit the fan and they lost a trillion or so off wall street, how do you quantify that sort of money, to us it just a number with a whole line of zeros, one guy summed it up for me, he said that if you spent a Million Dollars every day since the birth of Christ, you would only be at 75% of what these clowns blew in a day or two........now that is a scary thought.

Flyboy,
Is that a real bill you have pictured?

Bob in Everett

[www.guardian.co.uk]


January 01, 2009 12:52AM
Quote
Bob in Everett
Quote
Flyboy
Hey, a few elephants and lion and the great ole US of A could pass as another province of my beloved country...South Africa, seems like it is going to more like home than I imagined, when I come and visit ya all next July, hey I might even get even money for my Rand to Dollar. :wink:
Difference is the appathy here, we get shafted and are expected to supply our own vasaline, with every thrust we just shake our shoulders and lament "what can we do"
I would hate to be on the wrong side of 300 000 000 American tax payers with a hair trigger in the pissed off position.:X

Oh, and by the way R100 000 for a loaf of bread is small change, try this for size.........


When the doo doo hit the fan and they lost a trillion or so off wall street, how do you quantify that sort of money, to us it just a number with a whole line of zeros, one guy summed it up for me, he said that if you spent a Million Dollars every day since the birth of Christ, you would only be at 75% of what these clowns blew in a day or two........now that is a scary thought.

Flyboy,
Is that a real bill you have pictured?

Bob in Everett

These new 'greenbacks' are supposed to be released from the Philadelphia mint in April 1st 2009 according to ABC News correspondent Avril Foo winking smiley
January 01, 2009 02:08AM
Hi Bob, yep that is the genuine article, it is a bit out of date now, got it about 5 six or seven months ago, they have since brought out the 50 Billion note, I am trying to get my hands on one of them, will be flying up there sometime early in the new year, will get one then and post a pic for you guys.

A very prosperous new year to you all and may it be a good one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E30'S AREN'T BUILT, THEY'RE CAUGHT IN THE WILD!!!



When in doubt, use full throttle,
it may not improve the situation, but it will end the suspence.
January 01, 2009 04:30PM
Wow, That is reminicent of the 1923 inflation in Germany and since in Argentina a couple of times.

Seems we never learn....

Bob in Everett
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