May 19, 2009 08:34PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,869 : Amagansett, New York |
He keeps making sense, that is refreshing;
Obama's new rules will transform US auto fleet (AP) FILE - In this June 2, 2008 file photo, electric hybrid cars are plugged-in to charge during a demonstration of the vehicles in Seattle. AFS Trinity says it has the only working plug-in hybrid vehicles with a 40-mile 'all-electric' range. President Barack Obama outlined Tuesday, May 19, 2009, the nation's first comprehensive effort to curb vehicle emissions while cutting dependence on imported oil, calling the plan an historic turning point toward a 'clean-energy economy.' (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson, file)AP - Some soccer moms will have to give up hulking SUVs. Carpenters will still haul materials around in pickup trucks, but they will cost more. Nearly everybody else will drive smaller cars, and more of them will run on electricity. The higher mileage and emissions standards set by the Obama administration on Tuesday, which begin to take effect in 2012 and are to be achieved by 2016, will transform the American car and truck fleet. I wonder though, are people ready to make the hard choices that make sense? Hope so, if more people drove smaller cars the roads might be a nicer place Have a good weekend, Rick |
May 20, 2009 06:59AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 255 : Heber City, Utah |
May 20, 2009 08:34PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,869 : Amagansett, New York |
May 21, 2009 07:33AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 255 : Heber City, Utah |
May 21, 2009 08:32AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 797 : Ottawa |
Rick rides motorcycles. That death wish thing goes without saying. Any "Fiat type smart car getting 38 mpg" is going to provide superior occupant safety compared to a motorcycle, if you're planning on hitting him with your pickup truck. Besides, small vehicles like smart cars and motorcycles are way more nimble than your truck. You'd have to catch him first. And while you're chasing him he can go on evading you for days, whereas you'll be stopping frequently to refuel your truck. |
May 21, 2009 08:50AM
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Posts: 1,869 : Amagansett, New York |
May 21, 2009 09:44AM
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Posts: 255 : Heber City, Utah |
May 21, 2009 11:47AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 280 : NW of Boston, MA |
May 21, 2009 01:44PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 255 : Heber City, Utah |
May 21, 2009 09:08PM
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Posts: 636 |
May 22, 2009 08:49AM
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Posts: 280 : NW of Boston, MA |
May 25, 2009 12:07AM
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Posts: 670 |
June 05, 2009 03:55PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 20 : San Marcos, TX |
I read all about the obama admins stuff and CAFE is already their. I cant stand hybrids because the people think they are saving the world when the carbon foot print is larger from a prius then the f250 power stroke I drive. This is when you account for a total build of both cars because of the mining for the nickel for the batteries. What we need are the tdis that the rest of the world has the 330d and the e320 mbz hell Honda makes tdi that get better mpg then most hybrids. But California has blocked these.
Jack |
June 05, 2009 09:30PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,538 |
June 06, 2009 09:23AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 20 : San Marcos, TX |
The batteries are made of nickel, the nickel is mined in Canada, nickel mining is a really nasty thing it causes acid rain. It is loaded up on boat and shipped to Spain I believe where it is made into the gel from there it is shipped to China to be turned in to foam, then to Japan to be placed in the car. Finally its shipped back across the Pacific in to California, then transported to the rest of the states. After the useful life of the battery they are not recycled just dumped so you have dumped a really nasty battery that will eventually leak. Thats why the carbon foot print is so much larger, and those batteries don't last that long I think 60000ish.
[www.youtube.com] My tdi jetta gets 45 hwy thats up their with the hybrid, their less adverses side effects. The truck is made in Kentucky. It gets about 15 pre chip, post chip 25ish highway. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2009 09:27AM by jl1371. |
June 06, 2009 11:03AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,538 |
June 06, 2009 04:24PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,869 : Amagansett, New York |
June 06, 2009 05:30PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 20 : San Marcos, TX |
I don't want people to get the idea that I live in the south and feel the need to drive a big truck to over compensate, I do construction and the truck is for working. Mostly I am pro new technologies just not when it comes with a new worse cost. So often I feel that we are having the wool pulled over our eyes by the big three soon the big 2. We have prove technologies here and keep allowing blocking them from this country. Peoples wrong negative perception of these technologies does not help. I just took a friend to pick up his TDI 4Runner that also runs WVO. He has the same speces of the 6er with twice the fuel economy, and this car would have to be imported special or have a complex swap done.
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June 07, 2009 09:12AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 670 |
Here in Europe several countries are encouraging buying a new car, as it would save in CO2 output. Have they ever thought how much CO2 is blasted in the air when a car is being created? From mining and recycling to assembly? You'd drop dead if you knew, it's way better to keep driving your older car!
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June 07, 2009 04:35PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 609 : SoCal |
June 07, 2009 06:59PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,538 |
When these cars need new batteries, the next generation of Lithium Ion batteries will be the replacements. |
June 07, 2009 10:32PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 609 : SoCal |
Peter,have you seen any cost estimate on that? My understanding is it is a pretty hefty number. Granted, the cars are much cleaner, but I think if you amortize the cost of the batteries over the 7-8 year duty cycle, I think you break even on "fuel costs" compared to a normal internal combustion engine.
alan |
June 08, 2009 07:30AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,538 |
All the comparative cost estimates are based on initial cost amortized over the 8 to 10 year period. I've seen no estimates about how that would work out if the batteries are replaced...not sure any of the cars are old enough to need that yet and the few original Prius are long gone. If cost is pollution; then hybrids are possible worse than conventional cars The other thing that never gets thrown into the arguement is that by the time most of thee cars need new batteries, the technology will be different and the costs should be way down from current levels. It is also never mentioned that after 10 years of use; especially as taxis; these cars will not be worth replacing the batteries...they will be scrapped just like 10 year old North American products. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2009 07:35AM by Archeo-peteriX. |
June 09, 2009 07:07AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 609 : SoCal |
All good points except the 10 life cycle. Many Asian econoboxes with conventional engines last far longer than 10 years.
We see a lot of them here in Southern California. It would seem that shortening the life cycle of a car due to the economics of battery replacement is not a "very green" ideal? alan |
June 09, 2009 07:22AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,538 |
True but unfortunately most car owners will be tired of a car after 10 years and will use any rationalization to dump it for something new even though it almost never makes monetary sense. This is a big part of why the automobile is such a big polluter...not just the vehicle but all the industry surrounding it's manufacturing. If the average car owner kept his vehicle for 10 years instead of the national average of 3 years, it would drastically reduce the combined pollution of adding new cars to the roads along with the pollution created in their manufacture. In stead, our governments pour billions and billions of dollars into keeping the defunct, inefficient car manufacturers in business so they can produce more pollution! What is green about that? |
June 09, 2009 08:16AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 609 : SoCal |
Well, again, all true but you can extend the same argument for manufacture of anything else. Imagine what the steel industry puts into the environment. I would think the illogical extension of this would be to ban any and all manufacturing on a global basis but surely that is an extemist view.
From an economic point of view, a shorter life cycle is beneficial to the economy, shorter life cycle=more product turnover=increased consumption. The other consideration is on the idea of globalization. As China comes online as the new manufacturing nexus, at what point will the world at large demand that they start instituting anti-pollution measures which are largely absent at this point, They pretty much dump their wastes out the back door into the nearest river. Remember the smog issue in Beijing last summer with the Olympics? alan |
June 10, 2009 04:35AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 280 : NW of Boston, MA |
It's not just the new car owner that is relevant, though. If the car itself is capable of a longer life cycle, it can and will continue to be driven by used car owners. There are plenty of people out there ready to buy 3 y/o cars because the big depreciation has already hit and it's a low-cost vehicle that will last for many more years. If, OTOH, the car in question is a few year-old hybrid that is due for a very expensive battery replacement, the secondary market won't be so willing to jump on it. Cab 1990 325i(s) 2004 325XiT |
June 11, 2009 04:11PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,869 : Amagansett, New York |
Good point, and the electronic waste industry (all the old computers and such sent over there), that's appalling. All countries have to be accountable especially these days of overpopulation. |
June 11, 2009 04:19PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 1,869 : Amagansett, New York |
Its sad, you'd think by now car manufactures would think a little in to the future about how cars are made and how well they last. Peters right in that supporting failed companies just perpetuate the mess instead of thinning out the heard/deadwood. There are cars nowadays being made better, but its a little late for the most part Its one of the reasons I love the Thirty's so much; it's a car worth keeping up, and using |
June 12, 2009 04:12AM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 280 : NW of Boston, MA |
I guess I don't think it's sad, because I don't expect that from them. Manufacturers are companies whose goal is to make money. They will make and sell what people are interested in buying. And in fact, the companies make more money when people go out and buy new cars every three years. So it's not surprising to me that the manufacturers are trying to make money. That's what all companies do. Nobody forced millions of customers to buy large trucks and SUVs, they were sold because that's what the market wanted. If the majority of consumers wanted small, lightweight, fuel efficient cars, they would buy them, and the companies that didn't offer those types of options would be in trouble. Oh, wait... that's one of the reasons the "Big 3" are in trouble. But I don't believe the manufacturers are to blame for making and selling cars that people have wanted to buy. The people who continued to buy those cars without looking towards the future are far more to blame, IMO. If people really want a cleaner environment and cars that last for 10+ yrs, those cars are out there, so let the marketplace determine which companies prosper.
In general, you're absolutely right. Even the "bad" cars of today are far better than most of the cars that were available 20-30 years ago. The companies that made cars that really sucked have either been forced to improve their product or are no longer in business.
Amen to that, brother! I am looking forward to being done with school and hopefully having a bit more time so I can really start working on mine! Cab 1990 325i(s) 2004 325XiT Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2009 04:13AM by Cab Treadway. |