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how many turns ?

Posted by jaffar 
May 11, 2009 10:06AM
i wonder - how many right hand turns are there ? what about left hand turns ? are more of a kind than the other ? smiling smiley
what about in a year of regular driving, do we turn left or right more ?

thanks

--
A physics truck just turned over outside. There's physics everywhere!
May 11, 2009 11:34AM
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jaffar
i wonder - how many right hand turns are there ? what about left hand turns ? are more of a kind than the other ? smiling smiley
what about in a year of regular driving, do we turn left or right more ?

thanks

this question has been slowly killing me for a long time. I am worried that my tire wear is going to be significantly different because i turn one direction more often than the other. it sounds really stupid, and i am pretty sure it is, but i really do worry about it. to know how it is distributed across the whole world would be interesting.

I am going to guess that there are the same number of right and left turns, with a margin of error of a few hundred turns. (I am thinking both directions on a road, so those sort of cancel out so to speak, so you really only have to count one way roads... right?)


May 11, 2009 11:55AM
Wow, if that's the worst you guys have to worry about, life must be pretty good. winking smiley

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
May 11, 2009 12:14PM
And what is your definition of a turn? How long should it be? How sharp should it be? A straight is a turn with an infinite radius.
May 11, 2009 12:25PM
Michiel: good one thumbs up

I would also think that in more developed countries, we would have more right turns, because of this type of intersection:



I'm not worried about tire wear, but about something that is very obvious (to me, at least, haha): all used BMWs that i've seen have these similar features:

- the rear right suspension is always lower
- they always lean more when turning left then when turning right

But, I've never seen/driven a BMW from a country where you have to drive on the wrong side of the road. Should I expect that things are opposite in that case ?

--
A physics truck just turned over outside. There's physics everywhere!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 12:30PM by jaffar.
May 11, 2009 05:42PM
I dunno the answer, but I do try to plan my routes so that I make as many right turns onto busy streets as possible, and when left turns are required, that I'm turning from the busy street onto a less busy one. I hate having to wait for busy traffic to clear, and it's always easier making rights.

Cab
1990 325i(s)
2004 325XiT
May 11, 2009 07:44PM
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daniel
this question has been slowly killing me for a long time. I am worried that my tire wear is going to be significantly different because i turn one direction more often than the other.

It's called tire rotation. Most places do it for free if you buy your tires from them ;-)

I'm pretty sure my own personal driving style causes way more wear and tear than any insignificant difference in turning radius.
You might be better off looking at your favorite track/country road and seeing which way the hardest turns are going, left or right.
May 12, 2009 01:47AM
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Earendil
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daniel
this question has been slowly killing me for a long time. I am worried that my tire wear is going to be significantly different because i turn one direction more often than the other.

It's called tire rotation. Most places do it for free if you buy your tires from them ;-)

I'm pretty sure my own personal driving style causes way more wear and tear than any insignificant difference in turning radius.
You might be better off looking at your favorite track/country road and seeing which way the hardest turns are going, left or right.

i have directional tires, and soon they will be directional, staggered tires, so tire rotation is not an option. also, my suspension setup is pretty aggressive, so the rear camber is greater than the front, and i'd rather just replace the rears twice for every front replacement than mess up the tires that were on the front also.

for my car, tire rotation is pointless, but for those with non-directional tires and stock suspensions, it is possible it is worth it. i'd still just rather replace the rear tires when they wear out...


May 12, 2009 06:23AM
Why are you going with a staggered setup? Do you like understeer that much?

Cab
1990 325i(s)
2004 325XiT
rkj
May 12, 2009 10:26PM
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Cab Treadway
I dunno the answer, but I do try to plan my routes so that I make as many right turns onto busy streets as possible, and when left turns are required, that I'm turning from the busy street onto a less busy one. I hate having to wait for busy traffic to clear, and it's always easier making rights.

Out here in the hamptons you have to turn right first, then you look for a place to make a left to turn in to turn around. Sounds like a lot of work but its the safest/quickest way some days. Of course you could sit there and wait for a break in the traffic eye rolling smiley if you're an idiot.
May 12, 2009 11:56PM
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Cab Treadway
Why are you going with a staggered setup? Do you like understeer that much?

my car currently actually does not understeer unless done purposely. the reason i will have a staggered setup is because i will be replacing the rear tires before i replace the front tires. the new rear tires will be 245/35-16's, while both front and rear are currently 225/40-16. yes i know both sizes are smaller than the stock diameter, but the 225/40's were basically free so i wanted to use them, and i really want 245's on my car, and 245/40-16 unfortunately does not exist, and 245/45-16 is too big.


May 13, 2009 06:19AM
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daniel
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Cab Treadway
Why are you going with a staggered setup? Do you like understeer that much?

my car currently actually does not understeer unless done purposely.

It may not now, but it will with wider rear tires! Nice that you can tune that out, though.

Cab
1990 325i(s)
2004 325XiT
May 13, 2009 06:20AM
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rkj
Out here in the hamptons you have to turn right first, then you look for a place to make a left to turn in to turn around. Sounds like a lot of work but its the safest/quickest way some days. Of course you could sit there and wait for a break in the traffic eye rolling smiley if you're an idiot.

What a lot of idiots here do is wait until the lane nearest them is clear, then pull into that and stop, blocking traffic. Then they wait until the opposite lane is clear and finish their turn.

Cab
1990 325i(s)
2004 325XiT
rkj
May 13, 2009 08:20AM
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Cab Treadway
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rkj
Out here in the hamptons you have to turn right first, then you look for a place to make a left to turn in to turn around. Sounds like a lot of work but its the safest/quickest way some days. Of course you could sit there and wait for a break in the traffic eye rolling smiley if you're an idiot.

What a lot of idiots here do is wait until the lane nearest them is clear, then pull into that and stop, blocking traffic. Then they wait until the opposite lane is clear and finish their turn.

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta to do but I like to stay clear of the nondrivers out here, of which, especially in summer, there are many eye rolling smiley there are times the main roads are just too silly to bother with. When things get that way its usually the back roads and the motorcycle anyhow B)
May 13, 2009 09:42AM
In countries where we drive on the right hand side of the road, not the left like the UK, the right side of the car tends to be nearer the edge of the road while the left side tends to be nearer the centreline of the road. We get some nasty potholes in our roads as the frost comes out of the ground at the end of winter. The pavement tends to break up worst along the edge of the road, which means the right-side suspension tends to take more of a beating than the left.

Another thing to consider with tire wear is the crown in road. To aid drainage, the road surface slopes left and right away from the centreline of the road. So even while driving in the right lane of a straight road, the car is actually driving along with the left side higher than the right. If the crown in the road is steep enough, the car wants to fall away to the right all the time, requiring some steering pressure to the left to hold it straight on the road. Driving in the left lane would require steering to the right to keep the car from wandering away down to the left shoulder. So even if you're not abusing your tires by only turning left on a high-speed oval track, or only right on your favourite highway off ramp, even just spending all your time driving straight in the right lane, or left lane, would eventually wear the tires unevenly.
May 13, 2009 10:10AM
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Cab Treadway
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daniel
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Cab Treadway
Why are you going with a staggered setup? Do you like understeer that much?

my car currently actually does not understeer unless done purposely.

It may not now, but it will with wider rear tires! Nice that you can tune that out, though.

well i guess i'll just have to deal with it until i get 245's on the front also to balance it out. i will report back as to how the understeer is with a staggered setup.

so why does every RWD sports car over the last 10 years have a staggered setup?


May 13, 2009 12:22PM
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daniel
so why does every RWD sports car over the last 10 years have a staggered setup?

Because it looks aggressive and sexy. Also because the manufacturers lawyers want the cars to understeer from the factory. That is the preferred "no lawsuits" handling.

Cab
1990 325i(s)
2004 325XiT
rkj
May 13, 2009 05:03PM
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Cab Treadway
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daniel
so why does every RWD sports car over the last 10 years have a staggered setup?

Because it looks aggressive and sexy. Also because the manufacturers lawyers want the cars to understeer from the factory. That is the preferred "no lawsuits" handling.


Interesting, on my quest for the perfect motorcycle, one of my criteria was the same tire size front and rear, of course the rear tire is a bit fatter but having the same size makes for a really even keeled handling bike. The bike I choose had this and brother, what a joy in the twistys, this puppy is around the corner before the thought occurs.

I remember also on the 427 Ford (1964 custom) I used to race I had the same fat tires front and back. I thought that looked good. The car really handled nicely on the street as I remember so I guess I'm from the same size club, anyone what to join?
May 13, 2009 07:43PM
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daniel
so why does every RWD sports car over the last 10 years have a staggered setup?
They don't. MX-5, S2000, 350Z, and probably a bunch of others. Those are just the first three that popped into my head, and none of them uses staggered tire sizes. It's worth noting that all three of those cars have outstanding handling with their non-staggered setups.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
May 13, 2009 08:23PM
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Dave_G
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daniel
so why does every RWD sports car over the last 10 years have a staggered setup?
They don't. MX-5, S2000, 350Z, and probably a bunch of others. Those are just the first three that popped into my head, and none of them uses staggered tire sizes. It's worth noting that all three of those cars have outstanding handling with their non-staggered setups.

the miata yes,

the s2000 has 215/45-17's in the front, 245/40-17's in the back
the 350z has 225/45-18's in the front, 245/45-18's in the back
the 370z has 245/40-19's in the front, 275/35-19's in the back

any other examples? i really cant think of any off the top of my head.

so why does every RWD sports car over the last 10 years (other than the miata) have a staggered setup?


May 14, 2009 10:45AM
How about marketing? That's just what the customer wants.
rkj
May 14, 2009 08:19PM
I think in some cases, like the bigger Porsche cars, is that those cars have such big horsepower motors they need the silly big tires on the back but have no room for them on the front of a small car. My 930 had this going on, one of the most dangerous cars I've ever drove/owned. You had to steer that car with the gas pedal confused smiley
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