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Uneven power delivery, they all do that?

Posted by Milo 
As to the oil service indictator leds not working, the batteries on the instrument cluster need replacing, minor issue.

alan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2011 10:28AM by alanrw.
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alanrw
As to the oil service indictator leds not working, the batteries on the instrument cluster need replacing, minor issue.

alan

When I bought the car the lights were pegged in the"change oil" position. The interweb told me how to short pins together on the diagnostic connector to make it go away...it went away and 2000+ miles later it's still dark. I think I reset it too good.

What did I fry?

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Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
Tonights efforts focused on a new fuel filter and cleaning the ICV. The ICV is an older one I bought after my wife broke the connector off the other one helping me with the Bosal exhaust fiasco, it has the adjustment screw on it.

The fuel filter was pretty easy except for the mystery part that Google told me was a pulse reducer for the fuel pump. It's in the garbage now, replaced with a nice piece of fuel hose.

After I got the filter changed I had my daughter start the car while I had my hand on the fuel pump by the filter. No hum or vibration suggesting pumping activity. Is it that quiet or is it dead?

On my second tank of fuel injector cleaner.

I may just shelve this for a while and chase other gremlins, like the passenger window that decided to quit opening. Lights dim when the switch is pushed so I suspect motor issues.

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Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
October 18, 2011 10:13PM
If the lights dim, there must be power going to the motor...so the motor is not burned out...yet. Do the lights dim if the window control button is pushed either up or way?

Could be just the regulator is stuck for some reason.

Bob in Everett
rkj
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Milo
Tonights efforts focused on a new fuel filter and cleaning the ICV. The ICV is an older one I bought after my wife broke the connector off the other one helping me with the Bosal exhaust fiasco, it has the adjustment screw on it.

The fuel filter was pretty easy except for the mystery part that Google told me was a pulse reducer for the fuel pump. It's in the garbage now, replaced with a nice piece of fuel hose.

After I got the filter changed I had my daughter start the car while I had my hand on the fuel pump by the filter. No hum or vibration suggesting pumping activity. Is it that quiet or is it dead?

On my second tank of fuel injector cleaner.

I may just shelve this for a while and chase other gremlins, like the passenger window that decided to quit opening. Lights dim when the switch is pushed so I suspect motor issues.

Are you wondering if the pump is putting out Matt?

Yes, you can do away with the pulse valve but I still think they're good things. Too bad the dam things are so expensive!

Rick
Last night I unhooked the tank pump and jumped the fuel pump relay again. The pump by the filter spun up nicely...so, both pumps are working but the pressure is unknown because I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

I'm waiting for an opportunity to shut the car down for a few days and get the injectors cleaned. As of now I need it to haul kids around. Next week, maybe.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
rkj
Quote
Milo
Last night I unhooked the tank pump and jumped the fuel pump relay again. The pump by the filter spun up nicely...so, both pumps are working but the pressure is unknown because I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

I'm waiting for an opportunity to shut the car down for a few days and get the injectors cleaned. As of now I need it to haul kids around. Next week, maybe.

You'll need a gauge set-up, that I think is not expensive. I got mine at napa and I plumbed it up to my needs. I think you could probably make something up too. If you want I can post pictures of what I have and I can tell you how I do the tests; all very simple.

On eta cars I usually test the pumps independently (on twin pump cars) just to make sure both are on line and then test the system as a whole...

Rick
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
rkj
Quote
Milo
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

Good news, I've never adjusted that screw on the afm. Wonder what the procedure is?

Cheers, Rick
Quote
Milo
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

That was totally going to be our next suggestion...


Actually, tribal knowledge says to never touch the AFM screw. They are calibrated by BMW and shouldn't be changed. That said, if it's off, and you have the test equipment to prove it, I don't see why adjusting it would be all that bad. Glad you got it all sorted out!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

Over on the right rear corner under the hood is the connector going down to the O2 sensor, probing into the rear of the connector with voltmeter leads the smart guy found .8V (rich). He adjusted the screw until it was .5V.

My adjustment screw was all the way in, not the way it's supposed to be I'm sure.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
Quote
rkj
Quote
Milo
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

Good news, I've never adjusted that screw on the afm. Wonder what the procedure is?

Cheers, Rick

Well, since it is only there to adjust the bypass air during idle; the only way to properly adjust it is with an exhaust analyzer. It's main purpose is to reduce CO emissions at idle. I doubt very much that using a voltmeter will get it very close to being correct since the engine is long since new from the factory where the screw was set originally...and it has no electrical components eye popping smiley

Smoke and mirrors sad smiley
rkj
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Archeo-peteriX
Quote
rkj
Quote
Milo
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

Good news, I've never adjusted that screw on the afm. Wonder what the procedure is?

Cheers, Rick

Well, since it is only there to adjust the bypass air during idle; the only way to properly adjust it is with an exhaust analyzer. It's main purpose is to reduce CO emissions at idle. I doubt very much that using a voltmeter will get it very close to being correct since the engine is long since new from the factory where the screw was set originally...and it has no electrical components eye popping smiley

Smoke and mirrors sad smiley

I hate it when He does that!

Just when you think you've made some headway, Peter steps in with the skinny... :bow:
Quote
rkj
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
rkj
Quote
Milo
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

Good news, I've never adjusted that screw on the afm. Wonder what the procedure is?

Cheers, Rick

Well, since it is only there to adjust the bypass air during idle; the only way to properly adjust it is with an exhaust analyzer. It's main purpose is to reduce CO emissions at idle. I doubt very much that using a voltmeter will get it very close to being correct since the engine is long since new from the factory where the screw was set originally...and it has no electrical components eye popping smiley

Smoke and mirrors sad smiley

I hate it when He does that!

Just when you think you've made some headway, Peter steps in with the skinny... :bow:

But from what Milo said, they only adjusted the AFM and decarbed the intake valves, and this DID produce progress. I suppose he could have had so much carb build up that it was making spuradic power. But it strikes me that the AFM if completely out of whack would be a stronger suspect.
So even if they couldn't adjust the AFM perfectly, I'd guess that they at least improved it. Especially if the screw was indeed all the way down. Probably some punk previous owner started messing with it.
Milo, how long have you owned the car?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

I'm new to this so I don't want to sound like I know what I'm talking about but...here goes.

Don't all the sensor inputs rely on changing resistance on a known volotage?
Isn't the oxygen sensor an exhaust analyzer of a sort that changes resistance as the oxygen level changes.

I haven't spent a lot of time driving (motorcycle commuter) but I can say that the low speed response is much crisper. It still pulls unevenly when run through the range but I've never driven a well-running e to compare with.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
rkj
Quote
Milo
I'm new to this so I don't want to sound like I know what I'm talking about but...here goes.

Don't all the sensor inputs rely on changing resistance on a known volotage?
Isn't the oxygen sensor an exhaust analyzer of a sort that changes resistance as the oxygen level changes.

I haven't spent a lot of time driving (motorcycle commuter) but I can say that the low speed response is much crisper. It still pulls unevenly when run through the range but I've never driven a well-running e to compare with.

I'm only going by what I've read here for years but it's my understanding the 02 sensor does not influence things much. Peter?
I am glad you qualified that "never driven" statement since my "i" that you drove runs pretty well. There is a guy at my work that has an "e" that has more than twice the miles yours has and it is still going strong.

Bob in Everett
Quote
Earendil
Quote
rkj
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
rkj
Quote
Milo
FIXT...Much better anyway.

I finally brought it to Conaway Motors (great shop BTW) and they put it on their "decarbonator" that cleaned the carbon deposits off of the intake valves. They also adjusted the screw on the AFM with the volt meter attached...it was way off.

It revs much cleaner and seems to pull harder, I'll know more as I put more miles on it.

Thanks for the help all!

Matt

The decarb may well have been the defining factor...but the AFM screw is only in effect at idle. Once the AFM flap opens; it makes no difference where the screw is set because the bypass is being bypassed.

Adjusting the screw and getting changes in the O2 sensor at idle will have No effect on the problems Milo was experiencing at various throttle openings.

At best. his engine is now emitting far less CO than it was.

Time will tell if the decarb has done the trick.

I'm really not surprised at the nonsense some 'mechanics' try to fpoist off on folks they think are ignorant :wall:

Good news, I've never adjusted that screw on the afm. Wonder what the procedure is?

Cheers, Rick

Well, since it is only there to adjust the bypass air during idle; the only way to properly adjust it is with an exhaust analyzer. It's main purpose is to reduce CO emissions at idle. I doubt very much that using a voltmeter will get it very close to being correct since the engine is long since new from the factory where the screw was set originally...and it has no electrical components eye popping smiley

Smoke and mirrors sad smiley

I hate it when He does that!

Just when you think you've made some headway, Peter steps in with the skinny... :bow:

But from what Milo said, they only adjusted the AFM and decarbed the intake valves, and this DID produce progress. I suppose he could have had so much carb build up that it was making spuradic power. But it strikes me that the AFM if completely out of whack would be a stronger suspect.
So even if they couldn't adjust the AFM perfectly, I'd guess that they at least improved it. Especially if the screw was indeed all the way down. Probably some punk previous owner started messing with it.
Milo, how long have you owned the car?
Quote
rkj
Quote
Milo
I'm new to this so I don't want to sound like I know what I'm talking about but...here goes.

Don't all the sensor inputs rely on changing resistance on a known voltage?
Isn't the oxygen sensor an exhaust analyzer of a sort that changes resistance as the oxygen level changes.

I haven't spent a lot of time driving (motorcycle commuter) but I can say that the low speed response is much crisper. It still pulls unevenly when run through the range but I've never driven a well-running e to compare with.

I'm only going by what I've read here for years but it's my understanding the 02 sensor does not influence things much. Peter?

Generally speaking; the O2 sensor only helps to keep emissions within spec. Ultimate engine performance is only affected at idle if the O2 sensor goes bad.
This is most easily tested by unplugging the O2 sensor and running the car for a few days. If performance improves or gets really bad, then the sensor is faulty. In the case of improved performance; it was sending wrong info to the Motronics system. If it gets really bad; it means the sensor is working but masking bigger problems.

So, as you say 'Don't all the sensor inputs rely on changing resistance on a known voltage'...and that applies hear as well smileys with beer
E30 era 02 sensors give you a voltage. It switches from one level to another when going from lean to rich. (they can only tell if the car is running lean or rich)

More recent cars will have wideband sensors that can actually tell the computer how rich or how lean they are running.
Correct, and the newer ones also work with the OBD2 system and they have a second O2 sensor after the catalytic converter.

The E30 only has the single bipolar O2 sensor.
rkj
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Archeo-peteriX
Correct, and the newer ones also work with the OBD2 system and they have a second O2 sensor after the catalytic converter.

The E30 only has the single bipolar O2 sensor.


The things I still learn here thumbs up
Is this the Coolant Temperature Sensor on a 325e? If it is I think I found my problem, reading 86 ohms at ~100 degrees which is out of range (I think, my Bently is at work)



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Matt in Everett, WA

BMW n00b with a 1987 325e
The Bentley says at 68F 2100-2900 ohms. at 176F 270-400 ohms.

There are two of them though. One for the gauge and the light colored one for the computer.

Bob in Everett
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