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So, the damp start issues continue.

Posted by rkj 
rkj
September 30, 2010 10:03PM
I guess the new, industrial strength, battery did mask the problem, and if I crank it long enough the car does start but runs jumpy until something heats up (usually after a few minutes) and then all is well and smooth. If I keep running the car all day (even if it's raining hard) everything is fine.

The one thing I've done (at the time it doesn't start) is check spark (strong) and do the codes which are fine, every time. I haven't taken the old alarm out yet but will. So, the mystery continues thumbs down jeez
October 01, 2010 04:01PM
Did you check the coolant temp senders? Perhaps the ECU thinks the car is warm when it is cold? Lean cold start condition?

alan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 04:02PM by alanrw.
rkj
October 01, 2010 06:25PM
Quote
alanrw
Did you check the coolant temp senders? Perhaps the ECU thinks the car is warm when it is cold? Lean cold start condition?

alan

I did replace the one coolant sensor on the front there but is there another?

If I had to pick something out of the thin air I would say under the black plastic cover on the air flow meter, I see the rubbing arm riding on that coil is dirty and has a hard time working in the damp; that's just the way it feels (jerky running under power) when it's damp. I'm sure it's something completely different but we'll see in a few days when I put on a spare unit.

I have another set of ignition wires too, I'm using a set off one of my Etas right now without that single wire pigtail. After that the stinkin alarm is getting out of there, at least out of the fuse box. That whole unit will come out and be put back to normal eye rolling smiley

Just a little busy at the moment, and my wife isn't helping acting like a nut job.

Thanks Alan, Rick
October 01, 2010 09:08PM
Rick, what year and exact model is your car? I believe there are 2 sensors, one measures for the gauge and one measures for the ecu.(on the 84).

alan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2010 09:09PM by alanrw.
rkj
October 01, 2010 10:27PM
Quote
alanrw
Rick, what year and exact model is your car? I believe there are 2 sensors, one measures for the gauge and one measures for the ecu.(on the 84).

alan

Mine is a 1988 325is, I'm pretty sure there's just the one coolant sensor for the ECU, the other is for the gauge I think...
October 01, 2010 10:33PM
Any chance the new ecu sensor is defective? Is it ohming correctly when hot and cold?

alan
October 01, 2010 10:57PM
OK, according to the Bentley manual, the coolant temp sensor for the ECU should read 2200-2700 ohms at 68*. At 176* it should read 300-360 ohms. This is for the 325i and 325is. Bentley also lists dirty injectors and poor fuel pressure as a cause for hard cold start but hmmmmm. Bentley says the connector color is blue for the 325i and 325is

Make sure you are not confusing the temp sensor for the gauge sensor (I would most likely do this).

This is in section 6-42 of the Bentley

alan
October 02, 2010 12:26PM
Rick, just had a thought (no, it didn't hurt smiling smiley ). When you say it is hard cold starting, is it possible you are loosing fuel pressure in the injector rail from a bad valve on the fuel pump? So the cranking is lengthy because you are waiting for pressure to build so the injectors can spray?

alan
rkj
October 02, 2010 07:57PM
Quote
alanrw
Rick, just had a thought (no, it didn't hurt smiling smiley ). When you say it is hard cold starting, is it possible you are loosing fuel pressure in the injector rail from a bad valve on the fuel pump? So the cranking is lengthy because you are waiting for pressure to build so the injectors can spray?

alan

Thanks Alan, actually my condition is really just a dampness related issue, even a damp morning (we get em big time) will make the car hard to start and then run funny for a minute or two until it warms and dries out but it does not seem flooded in any way, then it can be raining cats and dogs the rest of the day with out any starting issues confused smiley I do think it is not spark related though; every time I check it, it's strong.
October 03, 2010 06:04PM
Rick, does the car have the cold start injector in addition to the 6 on the cylinders?

alan
October 03, 2010 07:33PM
Quote
alanrw
Rick, does the car have the cold start injector in addition to the 6 on the cylinders?

alan

Pretty sure that was only on the Eta with the Motronic 1.0. The 325i/iS runs Motronic 1.1 which controls the injectors so no need for the cold start injector which was controlled by the ICM that complemented the older Motronic module.

His engine should have only two sensors up there by the thermostat housing; a two lead one for engine coolant reporting to the ECU and a single lead one that drives the temp gauge.
rkj
October 03, 2010 08:25PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
alanrw
Rick, does the car have the cold start injector in addition to the 6 on the cylinders?

alan

Pretty sure that was only on the Eta with the Motronic 1.0. The 325i/iS runs Motronic 1.1 which controls the injectors so no need for the cold start injector which was controlled by the ICM that complemented the older Motronic module.

His engine should have only two sensors up there by the thermostat housing; a two lead one for engine coolant reporting to the ECU and a single lead one that drives the temp gauge.

Yes Peter, that's exactly right. Thanks, hopefully I'll get time this week to do so work.
rkj
October 06, 2010 10:01AM
So today, like any other day it's raining or damp out, the car is reluctant to start but does after some cranking. Before I even get past the first try I took a code reading from the engine check light; 114441144411444114- and so on. These are good readings, right?

As usual as soon as he starts (yes, my car is a he, got a problem with that?) it idles funky and as soon as you let the clutch out or get under any kind of power it stumbles and goes to 2-3 cylinders and then recovers slowly and gradually (within a mile or so) gets sorted out and after that (say a few miles down the road) it's perfectly fine and it's ready to do anything.

Now, today is fairly mucky here with rain and damp conditions, tonight we'll have the same thing, so it's my plan to let the car completely cool off and then later, take a break from work and try it out for a late lunch eye rolling smiley

I bet it starts and runs like it's a sunny day!

See, the thing is, on a sunny day; cold, hot or snow up to my ears or anywhere in between the car runs 100% and with the new (huge) battery and charging system he really is strong. Much stronger than ever before in our 7-8 years together.

Well, anyway, we'll see what happens later today and I'll keep working here to make room for car repairs maybe next week.

Take care smileys with beer
October 06, 2010 10:05AM
I think the solution is obvious. The car will have to be kept inside the house.

alan
October 06, 2010 10:42AM
BTW, what does code 11444 refer to?

alan
October 06, 2010 12:26PM
Quote
alanrw
BTW, what does code 11444 refer to?

alan

The first '1' is just a spacer.
The code '1444' is for all clear with no problem codes to report.
rkj
October 06, 2010 12:45PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
alanrw
BTW, what does code 11444 refer to?

alan

The first '1' is just a spacer.
The code '1444' is for all clear with no problem codes to report.

Oh cool, thanks Peter. Alan, if you knew how small my house is you'd know how funny that is! grinning smiley

Later
rkj
October 06, 2010 03:15PM
So, it's afternoon and I cranked the car up (still wet outside) and it started 100% and ran right off the bat 100%, tonight more rain so I'll be out there (after he's cooled down)) to try again!

At least now, with the new electrics, I know it will start if we're on a trip so I don't feel so helpless thumbs up

Later
October 06, 2010 06:45PM
....this is getting crazy!!!!! OK, what engine component allows moisture in but when it gets hot and the moisture is disappaited, all is well? We know it isn't ignition as you stated first try; fat blue spark at the high tension lead. Are we thinking fuel at this point? Residual fuel pressure in the fuel rail falling overnight? But it only manifests in damp weather. Hmmmm. Not electrical, at least as far as high tension is concerned.

alan
rkj
October 06, 2010 07:41PM
Quote
alanrw
....this is getting crazy!!!!! OK, what engine component allows moisture in but when it gets hot and the moisture is disappaited, all is well? We know it isn't ignition as you stated first try; fat blue spark at the high tension lead. Are we thinking fuel at this point? Residual fuel pressure in the fuel rail falling overnight? But it only manifests in damp weather. Hmmmm. Not electrical, at least as far as high tension is concerned.

alan

I KNOW, it's a real head scratcher.... It sure seems like a fuel related issue, in some strange way confused smiley
October 07, 2010 11:30AM
Rick, what about the electrical connection to the fuel rail for the injectors, if that connector is weak, it might interfere with the injectors firing? Perhaps a quick test would be to find the connector and wrap it for the evening?

alan
October 07, 2010 12:15PM
Quote
alanrw
Rick, what about the electrical connection to the fuel rail for the injectors, if that connector is weak, it might interfere with the injectors firing? Perhaps a quick test would be to find the connector and wrap it for the evening?

alan

That would be a good place to check. that connector is known to hold water and get all corroded.
It's right below the big Diagnostic socket with the screw off cap. Be careful when disconnecting the connector; if it has corroded, it will likely have rotten pins and separate in bits sad smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2010 12:16PM by Archeo-peteriX.
October 07, 2010 12:33PM
Well, no doubt it is available here at the Pick-A-Part and we don't have a lot of corrosion issues here in So-Cal. Can't find the wiring loom part on Pelican but if the connector is crappy, it needs to be replaced.

Rick, let me know if you want me to trudge out to the Pick-A-Part, no biggie.

alan
October 07, 2010 01:54PM
I looked at a couple of places and it seems the harness is a one piece affair for the entire engine. Does anyone know if the injector harness is available as a separate item? Assuming it is indeed the harness, I can check with a pal who used to be a BMW Tech.

alan
rkj
October 07, 2010 10:34PM
Quote
alanrw
Well, no doubt it is available here at the Pick-A-Part and we don't have a lot of corrosion issues here in So-Cal. Can't find the wiring loom part on Pelican but if the connector is crappy, it needs to be replaced.

Rick, let me know if you want me to trudge out to the Pick-A-Part, no biggie.

alan

Wow, what friends you are... I've had this plug apart a few years ago; I was on a mission with all the 2.5 cars in my charge. My car was a little crusty but not bad so I cleaned and coated it with electrical grease but maybe it's time for a recheck. Alan, I'll keep you posted, and thank you very much. smileys with beer I got a lot of work done today (I'll post a few pictures tomorrow) so soon my tools can go back in the box and on to the next project!

Rick
October 07, 2010 11:20PM
I was looking at the wiring diagram and it shows that the injectors are fired in 2 pairs, 1,3,5 and 2,4,6. Each hot lead to the injector banks comes off the ECU on pins 14 and 15(or something like that but definitely 2 separate leads). You said it felt like the car was hitting on only 3 cylinders until it cleared and then ran fine. Hmmmmmmm

alan
rkj
October 08, 2010 03:07PM
Quote
alanrw
I was looking at the wiring diagram and it shows that the injectors are fired in 2 pairs, 1,3,5 and 2,4,6. Each hot lead to the injector banks comes off the ECU on pins 14 and 15(or something like that but definitely 2 separate leads). You said it felt like the car was hitting on only 3 cylinders until it cleared and then ran fine. Hmmmmmmm

alan

Yup, you've got me thinking the same way too thumbs up
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