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starting problems

Posted by cookieesp 
September 22, 2010 05:33AM
can any one help i have an 86 325e which normally runs ok ...but now seems to run ok then when u try and restart seems as if it has flooded any ideas >???
September 22, 2010 09:33AM
There are several possibilities but one of the most likely is a leak injector(s).

Other items to check are the engine coolant sensor and the intact air temp sensor.
rkj
September 22, 2010 11:32PM
You could give us some details, we are after all, on the internet eye rolling smiley welcome, by the way+

Cheers, Rick
September 22, 2010 11:51PM
its abit weird u will be driving then the car starts to splutter then seems to clear itself run ok for a while then u stop it and its seems as if the car has flooded ..once it clears itself will run fine for awhile ?????
September 23, 2010 12:08AM
Might be a leaky injector or some dirty ignition parts. Might try cleaning the plugs and wires and look into the distributor cap. Cleaning injectors or just putting some injector cleaner in the fuel.

Bob in Everett
September 23, 2010 05:17AM
thanks bob i have replaced plugs and leads i will now try the injectors
September 23, 2010 07:57AM
You could also check the crank angle sensor. It's hard to say from the symptoms you describe, but a faulty CAS can cause weird intermittent problems like that.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
rkj
September 23, 2010 12:19PM
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Dave_G
You could also check the crank angle sensor. It's hard to say from the symptoms you describe, but a faulty CAS can cause weird intermittent problems like that.

The Etas don't have these Dave; their crank sensor is on the bellhousing. One can clean these though, often they get all fouled at the tip.

Cookie needs to determine if the problem is fuel or fire related first, my guess is fuel but even then sorting/trouble-shooting can be a nightmare.

Perseverance furthers cookie, Rick
September 23, 2010 05:17PM
I think the tell here is that it runs fine until he shuts it off and then tries to re-start. If it is indeed flooding, won't he smell gas? If the injectors are leaking, wouldn't his fuel economy go out the window?

I would think basics here, plugs, wires, dist cap (although if any of that was marginal, I would expect hard starting in the morning as well).Possible bad temp sender to the ECU? Fairly easy to check.

Could it also be as simple as a weak battery? Those cause all kinds of havoc.

alan
rkj
September 23, 2010 08:31PM
Quote
alanrw
I think the tell here is that it runs fine until he shuts it off and then tries to re-start. If it is indeed flooding, won't he smell gas? If the injectors are leaking, wouldn't his fuel economy go out the window?

I would think basics here, plugs, wires, dist cap (although if any of that was marginal, I would expect hard starting in the morning as well).Possible bad temp sender to the ECU? Fairly easy to check.

Could it also be as simple as a weak battery? Those cause all kinds of havoc.

alan[/quot

I agree but cookie might have trouble with the Main relay, weak fuel pump (these have two). When the motor stops that would be the time to check systems; fuel and spark. Spark is the easiest so go there first.
September 23, 2010 11:25PM
I can't think of a cause for hard restart. Usually, it is a hard cold start. And if it were fuel delivery, wouldn't the car buck/shut down from fuel starvation?

But you are right, leaky injectors would flood out the engine. Again, has fuel milage gotten really bad?

alan
rkj
September 24, 2010 12:33AM
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alanrw
I can't think of a cause for hard restart. Usually, it is a hard cold start. And if it were fuel delivery, wouldn't the car buck/shut down from fuel starvation?

But you are right, leaky injectors would flood out the engine. Again, has fuel milage gotten really bad?

alan

Right, how's the hot start; does it take a while before the motor catches? (like it's flooded)
September 25, 2010 12:19AM
this seems to be an intermitant prob as hot or cold start it seems as if its flooded ...but it does not do this all the time....only occasionally ....... i have replaced the plugs leads and dizzy cap ?????
September 25, 2010 10:34AM
Another thought. Could the coil be going south? An overheated coil will give similar unpredicatble symptoms.

alan
September 25, 2010 11:14AM
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cookieesp
when u try and restart seems as if it has flooded...

car starts to splutter then seems to clear itself run ok for a while then u stop it and its seems as if the car has flooded...

an intermitant prob hot or cold start it seems as if its flooded...

Before we go too far down this road, maybe you should describe more precisely the symptoms which make you think it's flooded.

Is it cranking over fine, but just not firing? Is it belching black smoke when it finally does start? Can you smell gasoline coming out the exhaust? Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if one (or all) of the plugs are wet?
rkj
September 25, 2010 12:44PM
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Ferdinand
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cookieesp
when u try and restart seems as if it has flooded...

car starts to splutter then seems to clear itself run ok for a while then u stop it and its seems as if the car has flooded...

an intermitant prob hot or cold start it seems as if its flooded...

Before we go too far down this road, maybe you should describe more precisely the symptoms which make you think it's flooded.

Is it cranking over fine, but just not firing? Is it belching black smoke when it finally does start? Can you smell gasoline coming out the exhaust? Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if one (or all) of the plugs are wet?

Yes, internet trouble shooting one O one; tell us whatever you know.... smiling smiley
September 28, 2010 04:59AM
yes to all above cranking fine/.... black smoke ,,, smell of petrol ...once started will clear itself and run ok ...start ok a few times,,,, then this will happen all over i would rather it shit itself with one problem
September 28, 2010 09:52AM
Quote
cookieesp
yes to all above cranking fine/.... black smoke ,,, smell of petrol ...once started will clear itself and run ok ...start ok a few times,,,, then this will happen all over i would rather it shit itself with one problem

I repeat my initial diagnosis; have the coolant temperature sensor checked and the injectors.
September 28, 2010 04:25PM
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Archeo-peteriX
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cookieesp
yes to all above cranking fine/.... black smoke ,,, smell of petrol ...once started will clear itself and run ok ...start ok a few times,,,, then this will happen all over i would rather it shit itself with one problem

I repeat my initial diagnosis; have the coolant temperature sensor checked and the injectors.

I'm with Peter on this one.

If it's leaky injectors the fuel system won't hold pressure after the engine is shut off. Fuel will bleed out into the intake and flood the engine making it hard to start. Furthermore, even if not flooded, it will require a longer crank period on the starter motor before the fuel pump rebuilds the required fuel pressure.

If the injectors are not actually leaking, it's still possible that they are being cycled open too long by the ECU causing flooding if the coolant sensors are feeding the ECU wrong information.

On the 86 325e there are up to four (4) separate coolant sensors mounted on the thermostat housing. See this RealOEM drawing.

#12 - Remote thermometre sending unit: This one is only connected to the temp gauge in your instrument cluster.
#13 - Temperature sensor, water: This is the important one that's used by the ECU to regulate injector pulses.
#15 - Temperature switch: This is just a switch that closes below 0-C (32F) to bump up idle speed.
#16 - Temperature Time Switch: This switch is dual-function. On cold starts it is closed for a certain time period (can't remember how long), or stays open if the coolant temp is above 35-C (95F). While the switch is closed it powers the cold-start injector, which is a separate little fuel injector mounted into the intake manifold up above the exhaust side of the engine (#7 in this drawing).

If either of those two sensors #13 or #16 in the RealOem drawing are buggered, it can cause flooding. Or if any of the fuel injectors (including the cold-start injector) are leaking, i.e. not properly closing fully, it will cause flooding.
September 28, 2010 04:53PM
Does the 325E have a schrader release valve on the injector log? Many cars have these in order to release fuel pressure before servicing the injectors. If the injectors are indeed leaking, thereby releasing fuel pressure, pressing the schrader valve after 30 minute would show no fuel squirting out. If no schrader valve, wait 30 minutes and simply disconnect the fuel line on it's way to the injector log. There are several places to do this. If everything is well, you should get fuel squirting out when you break the connection. If the injectors are indeed leaking, no fuel when you break the connection.

alan
September 28, 2010 06:10PM
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alanrw
Does the 325E have a schrader release valve on the injector log?
I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Quote

If everything is well, you should get fuel squirting out when you break the connection.
Keeping in mind that squirting fuel is really dangerous and not something that's recommended.
September 28, 2010 08:13PM
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Ferdinand
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alanrw
Does the 325E have a schrader release valve on the injector log?
I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Quote

If everything is well, you should get fuel squirting out when you break the connection.
Keeping in mind that squirting fuel is really dangerous and not something that's recommended.

Agreed, safety glasses and a towl will minimize the danger here. Also, if you wait 30 minutes, no hot engine parts. Always have a fire bottle nearby.

alan
September 30, 2010 05:27AM
thanks guys i'm abit of a novice at this and this is also my first BMW so thanks for the info i will try to fix the probs with this new info ....the car seems to have alot of little faults so many thanks once again
September 30, 2010 09:38AM
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cookieesp
thanks guys i'm abit of a novice at this and this is also my first BMW so thanks for the info i will try to fix the probs with this new info ....the car seems to have alot of little faults so many thanks once again

Since many of us have experienced one or more of your problems and fixed them ourselves; don't hesitate to ask questions and seek advice on how to do these tests. We're here to help if we can smileys with beer
October 02, 2010 10:14PM
If you suspect flooding on the start, which one would if it did not start in about 4 seconds. Stop and press the gas pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there. Then try the starter with the pedal floored. Be ready though, when it does start, the engine will accelerate very quickly and you want to get off the pedal as soon as the tach hits about 2000 rpm. it will still accelerate past that but no sense hitting the rev limiter.

When the pedal is held down, the injectors are inhibited from turning on fuel so the flooding will not continue.

Bob in Everett
October 03, 2010 10:44AM
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Bob in Everett
...
When the pedal is held down, the injectors are inhibited from turning on fuel so the flooding will not continue.

Bob in Everett

Wherever did you read that?

Holding the pedal down simple allows lots of air into the intake so as to quickly evacuate the combustion chambers of excess unatomized fuel.
rkj
October 03, 2010 04:46PM
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Archeo-peteriX
Quote
Bob in Everett
...
When the pedal is held down, the injectors are inhibited from turning on fuel so the flooding will not continue.

Bob in Everett

Wherever did you read that?

Holding the pedal down simple allows lots of air into the intake so as to quickly evacuate the combustion chambers of excess unatomized fuel.

Right, and the fuel shuts off after a bit of cranking anyway. I've forgotten exactly how long that is but ....
October 05, 2010 11:43PM
I did read it somewhere and it seems like it works for mine when it floods. Can't remember where it came up. Began to think I was going to damage the starter before I learned about it.

Bob in Everett
October 05, 2010 11:58PM
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Bob in Everett
I did read it somewhere and it seems like it works for mine when it floods. Can't remember where it came up. Began to think I was going to damage the starter before I learned about it.

Bob in Everett

Well, the problem with that theory is that if pressing the accelerator pedal shuts off the fuel flow; the engine would never start.

As others have pointed out, the fuel flow will be shut off if the engine doesn't start after 30 seconds or so(that's just a guess based on what is described in the Bosch Fuel Injection manual) and it is not affected by throttle position smiling smiley
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