Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile Recent Messages

Advanced

Tranmission Seal Replacement

Posted by Earendil 
July 30, 2009 04:25PM
So, I have the exhaust removed, the drive shaft out, and am ready to replace the seal. The Bentley seems to have good details... I just can't match the details to what I'm looking at. It mentions locking tabs, which I don't appear to have. What I do see is a collar nut, which is supposed to be 30mm and looks to need a need thin walled socket. Does anyone know if this is the case? This is another item I don't have around, and am not looking forward to purchasing if I can avoid it.

When the collar nut is removed, presumably I'll have immediate access to the seal? The Bentley seems to imply as much, but I'm guessing some pieces should be removed after the collar nut comes off.

Any wise words, warnings, or tips before I attempt to proceed?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 04:26PM by Earendil.
rkj
July 30, 2009 05:17PM
Quote
Earendil
So, I have the exhaust removed, the drive shaft out, and am ready to replace the seal. The Bentley seems to have good details... I just can't match the details to what I'm looking at. It mentions locking tabs, which I don't appear to have. What I do see is a collar nut, which is supposed to be 30mm and looks to need a need thin walled socket. Does anyone know if this is the case? This is another item I don't have around, and am not looking forward to purchasing if I can avoid it.

When the collar nut is removed, presumably I'll have immediate access to the seal? The Bentley seems to imply as much, but I'm guessing some pieces should be removed after the collar nut comes off.

Any wise words, warnings, or tips before I attempt to proceed?

Okay, you're getting in there, thats good.

The nut on the transmission flange is a pain in the ass; the one I built for the 2002s was a normal socket that I ground down and heat treated (the outside lower part) so it would fit in that silly area Bmw gave us to work with. After that the flange might just pull off but more than likely you'll need a steering wheel puller to get it off the out-put shaft. Once that's off you'll have access to the seal, be careful not to mark up the sealing housing and sink the new seal in with a little sealer (it will prevent galling and also helps keep the seal in there), you also want to put a little white grease on the rubber part of the seal and the flange neck that will fit in to the seal; helps with seal break in.

So tell me, what did you have to go through getting the guibo drum off, fun right? eye rolling smiley

Rick
July 30, 2009 06:27PM
Quote
rkj
Okay, you're getting in there, thats good.

The nut on the transmission flange is a pain in the ass; the one I built for the 2002s was a normal socket that I ground down and heat treated (the outside lower part) so it would fit in that silly area Bmw gave us to work with. After that the flange might just pull off but more than likely you'll need a steering wheel puller to get it off the out-put shaft. Once that's off you'll have access to the seal, be careful not to mark up the sealing housing and sink the new seal in with a little sealer (it will prevent galling and also helps keep the seal in there), you also want to put a little white grease on the rubber part of the seal and the flange neck that will fit in to the seal; helps with seal break in.

So tell me, what did you have to go through getting the guibo drum off, fun right? eye rolling smiley

Rick

I'm really not looking forward to buying a thin socket of that size. I'll probably never use it again sad smiley
Oh well.

The Flange/Drum was easy. In other words, I lucked out.
As I noted in my other thread, I was able to remove the 3 nuts holding the guibo to the transmission, and do so without putting a wrench to the back of the bolts. This allowed me to remove the drive shaft with guibo attached, leaving the flange epoxied (and overkill at that) to the output shaft of the transmission. When I replace the seal, and remove that output shaft with the drum attached, I'll see about cutting the drum away and leaving it in a dumpster someplace. I'm pretty sure I'll be unable to bolt the guibo back onto the output shaft while that drum is there sad smiley

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

sdp
July 31, 2009 12:47AM
The drum is epoxied to the trasmission side? That's bizarre.
July 31, 2009 01:22AM
Quote
sdp
The drum is epoxied to the trasmission side? That's bizarre.

Yep. Or at least it has some sort of flexible goo holding it there. I can grab the drum and move it ever so slightly because the epoxy has some flex to it. It certainly isn't metal to metal there. I'm pretty sure it was this goo, and it's overuse, that makes it impossible to get to the bolts on the back side of the drum (with the drive shaft in place). At least that's how my set up is. If everyone else somehow has the drum bolted down, I'd be even more willing to cut the drum off and never install it again.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

rkj
July 31, 2009 01:03PM
I think that drum gets bolted through and that is how it is fastened on to the guibo and shaft flange. Did it come off with the shaft/guibo?

It's very tight in back of the guibo so your wrench has to be just right, I can remember using a germen thin open end on that.
July 31, 2009 01:19PM
Quote
rkj
I think that drum gets bolted through and that is how it is fastened on to the guibo and shaft flange. Did it come off with the shaft/guibo?

It's very tight in back of the guibo so your wrench has to be just right, I can remember using a germen thin open end on that.

Perhaps a picture will help :-)


The guibo came off with the shaft, leaving what you see in the picture. The drum moves slightly independently of the output from the transmission (triangle + bolts). Around the end of the drum, there is black epoxy-ish stuff that is visible in the picture, but hard to distinguish from the rest. If it looks like a welding/metal torch job, it's actually epoxy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

July 31, 2009 03:54PM
Quote
Earendil
Perhaps a picture will help :-)
Are the three remaining studs/bolts still in there tight now? If you were to put the new guibo and driveshaft back in there now, would you even need to hold the heads of those bolts from behind the balancer drum when you put the nuts back on?

If all you're doing is replacing the worn guibo and driveshaft, it looks like none of the rest of this stuff has to come off at all.

However, if you're trying to replace the transmission output shaft seal, then you "only" need to remove the big nut in the centre. You will need a deep thin-walled socket for that, plus a way to hold the output shaft from turning while you lean on the wrench, or you have to use an impact gun to undo the nut. Once you get the nut off then the triangular flange, together with the attached balancer drum, pulls straight off the splined output shaft.

This RealOEM drawing shows the splines inside the output flange #17, which fit over the end of the transmission output shaft #1.

When reinstalling, be sure to use sealant under that big nut in the centre, otherwise transmission oil will seep out through the splines in the output shaft.
rkj
July 31, 2009 05:56PM
Quote
Ferdinand
Quote
Earendil
Perhaps a picture will help :-)
Are the three remaining studs/bolts still in there tight now? If you were to put the new guibo and driveshaft back in there now, would you even need to hold the heads of those bolts from behind the balancer drum when you put the nuts back on?

If all you're doing is replacing the worn guibo and driveshaft, it looks like none of the rest of this stuff has to come off at all.

However, if you're trying to replace the transmission output shaft seal, then you "only" need to remove the big nut in the centre. You will need a deep thin-walled socket for that, plus a way to hold the output shaft from turning while you lean on the wrench, or you have to use an impact gun to undo the nut. Once you get the nut off then the triangular flange, together with the attached balancer drum, pulls straight off the splined output shaft.

This RealOEM drawing shows the splines inside the output flange #17, which fit over the end of the transmission output shaft #1.

When reinstalling, be sure to use sealant under that big nut in the centre, otherwise transmission oil will seep out through the splines in the output shaft.

Ferdinand, we're giving away all the trade secrets winking smiley
July 31, 2009 06:09PM
Quote
Ferdinand
Are the three remaining studs/bolts still in there tight now? If you were to put the new guibo and driveshaft back in there now, would you even need to hold the heads of those bolts from behind the balancer drum when you put the nuts back on?

And that is the million dollar question. They didn't budge when I removed the nuts, which took a fair amount of torque. But in the process of getting the drive shaft out I may have loosened them up. I'm afraid I'll be in the process of trying to retorque the nuts back down, when the bolt frees it's self, thus preventing me from tightening further and getting the nut back off again.

Quote
Ferdinand
However, if you're trying to replace the transmission output shaft seal, then you "only" need to remove the big nut in the centre. You will need a deep thin-walled socket for that, plus a way to hold the output shaft from turning while you lean on the wrench, or you have to use an impact gun to undo the nut. Once you get the nut off then the triangular flange, together with the attached balancer drum, pulls straight off the splined output shaft.

Why, that sounds so easy! smiling smiley
It has to be a thin-walled deep socket doesn't it? I don't have an impact gun, so I'll have to do it the old fashioned way by placing some knuckle skin in the general vicinity.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

August 01, 2009 05:35PM
I a little update, and some helpful information.
The collar nut requires a 30mm deep thin-walled socket. These cost about $30-$35 depending on the online location.
This also happens to be a 1-3/16 if you can't find metric (it comes to 30.16).

Or you can find a socket to remove a 1987-present day day GM oil pressure sender. These cost $10-$15 online, and work just dandy!
Note that they are advertised as such. I went to my local small town NAPA and asked for just that, they handed my a socket whose packaging mentions nothing of the size on the front of the package, but in the fine print on the backside it says it's 1-3/16 in.
Of course, you have to add the small town tax, and NAPA tax to it, so it cost me about $20. Still better than having a $30 part shipped to me.
The two types of sender unit sockets I found online were the "Lisle 13150", and the "Powerbuilt #648445". Though it seems like powerbuilt may be named "alltrade" now. Then there is the NAPA one.

Now back to my own personal story...
So I attacked my new NAPA socket to my 3 foot breaker bar, crawl under my car to make sure it fits, and realise I haven't found a way to hold the transmission/motor still yet. No matter, the car is in gear so let's give the breaker bar a little tug and see what happens. Holy @#$% I could loosen it with two fingers eye popping smiley

So the collar nut wasn't a problem, and as you may be able to guess, I didn't need a puller to get the triangle output shaft attachment off. So now I have easy access to the transmission seal and the entire shifter linkage assembly. The transmission seal did not want to pop out with a small screw driver, as the Bentley would have you believe. I didn't pry hard though, for fear of damaging something. Any slick ideas for getting the old seal out? What could I possibly damage, or what can't I damage as I try and get this sucker out?

Thanks again!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

August 01, 2009 08:15PM
Quote
Ferdinand
When reinstalling, be sure to use sealant under that big nut in the centre, otherwise transmission oil will seep out through the splines in the output shaft.

What type of sealant should I use here?

While I'm on a similar vain, the shifter linkage had some grease around certain parts, particularly the shifter pivot ball. Because of the amount of transmission oil + road grime across the entire thing, I wiped it all down. Now I need to replace that grease with something. Suggestions there?
Edit: Actually, I was vaguely away (and now confirmed) that some sort of lithium White grease is what people use. However I have none of that, but a ton of axle grease. Would there be any harm in using axle grease? I don't think I'd care if it was just a little more stiff, but I don't want whatever grease I use to start breaking down the plastic/rubber.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2009 03:03PM by Earendil.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 6
Record Number of Users: 3 on September 29, 2015
Record Number of Guests: 116 on November 11, 2017