Attempting to replace oil pump myself. Listening for any advice.

Ok, so I'll save the details as to why I'm changing it, but just know that the new pump is showing up tomorrow and I'm going to get started on it. Removing the oil pan does not look like fun at all.

Bentley manual reads:

1- Drain the oil.
2- Remove the oil level sensor harness.
3- Remove the two bolts that secure the steering rack to the subframe.
(and then what? removing just two bolts doesn't look like it will do much)
4- Remove the four hex-head bolts and four Torx head bolts that secure the bellhousing reinforcement plate. Remove the plate.
(a couple of those Torx bolts look impossible to get to)
5- Remove the oil pan retaining bolts and lower the oil pan.
6- Remove the three oil pump mounting bolts and lower the pump into the pain. Withdraw both.

Is it just me (probably is) or does that all seem a little vague? If there is a link on the web somewhere with a good write up for doing this whole procedure, then please post it.
There just seems to be a lot more in the way of that pan. Also, does anybody know from experience what size the Torx bolts are? Two different sizes.
Any tips, tricks, hints, suggestions, warnings, and words of encouragement are deeply appreciated.

Thanks guys.

maybe this will help?

[r3vlimited.com]

After you've done this once description will not be vague, however for the first time doing it I agree it is vague

steering rack - loosen the bolts and move steering rack about one inch (it will help provide space to lover the pan). Better completely unbolt the rack or remove it if you can (hey it's a good time to replace those tie-rod ends )

Torx bolts that you need to remove are not hard to get to (make sure you don't remove wrong ones). At the end of a tranny there is a (reinforcement) plate - that's the only thing you wan to remove.

As for other tips:
-Get the car as fair as you can in the air
-it helps (clearance plate if you can remove/loosen engine mounting bolts) - just make sure to support engine in that case (chery-pick or some kind of a brace for the front of the engine)
-removing AND installing oil pump and shaft is PITA - you have to do it "blind" (just by feel) Once you remove the oil pump then you can remove pan as well.
-have a vocabulary of you favorite "words" ready - you will use them
- removing oil pump on E30 builds character

good luck

Yeah, after this job, if you can do it, you'll be a much more experienced man. You have to jack the motor up and wedge a piece of wood or a socket between the motor mounts and its mounting pad (watch out above for fans and hoses and such) and you'll have to turn the motor over (rotate the crankshaft) as you slip the pan out, when shes almost out you have to slip in there and drop the oil pick up and let it drop in the pan. Then you can continue to remove the pan, spinning the motor over so the crank journals miss the pan ends.

I never dropped the rack totally out but it might help.

Good luck, its not a job for a rookie take your time

Rick

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rkj
....."you'll have to turn the motor over (rotate the crankshaft) as you slip the pan out, when shes almost out you have to slip in there and drop the oil pick up and let it drop in the pan. Then you can continue to remove the pan, spinning the motor over so the crank journals miss the pan ends"......

First, thanks Rick.

Now on with the complaining...haha....

every time I turn around there's something new! In the 3 descriptions I've read before yours..none of them said anything about rotating the crank. Oy vey.

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BimmerBrad

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rkj
....."you'll have to turn the motor over (rotate the crankshaft) as you slip the pan out, when shes almost out you have to slip in there and drop the oil pick up and let it drop in the pan. Then you can continue to remove the pan, spinning the motor over so the crank journals miss the pan ends"......

First, thanks Rick.

Now on with the complaining...haha....

every time I turn around there's something new! In the 3 descriptions I've read before yours..none of them said anything about rotating the crank. Oy vey.

The car I owned at the time was a 1984 323 5speed Baur (I spun out and the pan hit a curb), it should be a carbon copy of yours, if for some reason you can clear the pan and miss the crank journals, well, some much the better, but I don't think so B)

As I say, take your time (safety first; measure twice cut once) and if you're having issues (you probably will) phone home and we'll help see you through this pain in the ass job- remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Rick

Be sure and fill the new pump with oil before installing it. Even if some of it spills out, it will pick up the oil from the pan a lot faster. I put mine in empty and got no oil pressure for a long time and finally shut off the engine, hopefully before damage. Might even want to remove the spark plugs and crank until you get pressure before running.

Getting the pan off requires removing the pump bolts by reaching into the partially removed pan. Assembly is the reverse and getting the pump drive shaft to stay in place while you put the bolts in is a challenge.

Oh, yeah, the rear most crank journals can get in the way. Turn the crank by putting a wrench on the front pully. My first time the crank was accidentally in a good spot, The second time ( to fill the pump) was in the wrong position. I also recommend sealant on the pan gasket on both sides to prevent leaks. Mine is leaking again.

Bob in Everett



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2009 09:58PM by Bob in Everett.

if you end up needing to turn the crank remove sparkplugs first - it makes job of turning the crank MUCH easier..

...I can do this...
...I can do this...
...I can do this...

Rick- So not much changed between an '84 323 and an '87 325e?

Bob- More useful info. Thanks. Didn't know about filling the pump with oil.

As it sits now, the car is up on ramps, oil drained reinforcement plate removed, steering rack unbolted from subframe, oil level sensor out, plastic under side removed for convenience, motor mount nuts removed and motor/tranny raised a couple inches (how high can I go with this thing?).

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BimmerBrad
...I can do this...
...I can do this...
...I can do this...

Rick- So not much changed between an '84 323 and an '87 325e?

Bob- More useful info. Thanks. Didn't know about filling the pump with oil.

As it sits now, the car is up on ramps, oil drained reinforcement plate removed, steering rack unbolted from subframe, oil level sensor out, plastic under side removed for convenience, motor mount nuts removed and motor/tranny raised a couple inches (how high can I go with this thing?).

You're going to be limited by the transmission hitting the body and the general connectedness of everything, watch out above as you push the motor up. Yes, you have to prime the oil pump (thought that would be in those how to's). Nothing much has changed since the series two 323 till yours, same animal.

I would take great care in the sealing of the oil pan gasket, I always use that ultra copper permatex silicone and tie the gasket on with thread if I have to (use a carpet thread)- a little dab in the corners is a good idea to if there are any where a flat gasket meets a half round rubber seal. Wipe everything down with solvent first and alcohol last, things have to be hospital clean so sealers can work.

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rkj

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BimmerBrad
...motor/tranny raised a couple inches (how high can I go with this thing?).

You're going to be limited by the transmission hitting the body and the general connectedness of everything, watch out above as you push the motor up.

You're going to want to raise the engine up as high as possible, and then find it's still not high enough. Lift it, then go back up top and check to see where it's touching to make sure you're not crushing anything important. For example make sure to open the hood first, eh.

You also might want to remove the rubber bellows between the throttle body and air filter housing to prevent stretching that. My 86 325e had a short small ground wire joining the engine to the body frame rail at the top back of the engine, exhaust manifold side. Make sure you're not stretching or tearing that either.

Unclip, but not necessarily remove, the fan shroud on the back of the radiator. When you raise the engine the fan is going to catch on the shroud. Make sure the fan doesn't scratch up the rad.

Once you finally have the oil pan removed, take a really good look at how the oil pump fits in there and where the long driveshaft fits that drives the pump. Practice fitting the shaft and pump back into place until you can do it with your eyes closed. You'll be doing it blind, by touch, when it's time to put things back together.

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rkj
I would take great care in the sealing of the oil pan gasket, I always use that ultra copper permatex silicone and tie the gasket on with thread if I have to (use a carpet thread)- a little dab in the corners is a good idea to if there are any where a flat gasket meets a half round rubber seal. Wipe everything down with solvent first and alcohol last, things have to be hospital clean so sealers can work.

Be prepared to end with gasket sealer up to your elbows when you're fishing around blindly in the bottom of the oil pan trying to retrieve that #@$%ing last oil pump bolt that you dropped in there...

Above all, make absolutely 100% certain for sure that the engine is propped up securely!!! Do NOT go sticking your fingers between the sharp edges of the oil pan and the bottom of the engine block if there's any chance at all of the engine suddenly dropping. You're going to end up cutting your fingers and wrist on those sharp edges anyway. But if the engine drops, you could seriously lose your entire hand.

Well, bad news and good news.

We'll start with the good (so far). Everything came apart just fine. No rotation of the crank was needed. Man it was a tight squeeze though. The new pump, new gasket, and pan have all been reinstalled. Giving it a good 24 hours for the copper Permatex (thanks Rick) to completely set. I don't think I used as much as I would have liked to, but I wasn't trying to go crazy with it either. I used some industrial strength solvent/degreaser on all the surfaces beforehand. We'll see if I did a good enough job. At the very LEAST of being optimistic.......I know how to do it all now should it need to be redone now or later.

Now the bad news that I think will be ok......

.....to backtrack a little bit.....

I had the oil pressure idiot light come on a couple weeks ago while driving to a wedding gig. I really didn't anything of it (bear with me before you jump my case! haha) because I have had an issue in the past with the oil pressure switch not making a very good connection and after cleaning it.....it was fine. Well once I got under the car to clean the switch connection and check everything out, the light stayed on. "Uh oh". (which by the way....the switch was replaced with a brand new one also...just in case)
So I figured the pump might be getting weak or faulty because when I was running 10/30 everything was fine, but when I got my oil changed right before said wedding, I moved up to 20/50 for the typically hot summers here in Illinois. I was thinking that the molasses for oil was making the pump work too hard (guessing in my non-mechanically savvy brain). So I was going to change my own friggin oil for a change and go back to 10/30 to see if that was going to make a difference. Well when I went to change the oil, I saw that there were some metal shavings in the bottom of the drip pan. (SON OF A!!) I had NO clue where they would have come from. NO smoke, NO horrendous noises from the engine.....nothing. Other than the light being on, the car was driving the exact same way it always had. The shavings weren't magnetic either. Maybe the pump was falling apart? Nah......

.....fast forward to this last Friday....

after taking the pan out and powerwashing all the crap off of it so I could have a clean pan to work with, I realized where the shavings came from. Yup, plug threads were all but gone. Like most people (maybe not here) I was having my car serviced for oil changes. Never again. Each time they changed my oil I'm sure they were tightening that plug bolt more and more....shoving threads/shavings into the pan. (SON OF A!!) After seeing what BavAuto charges for a new pan, we quickly turned to saving it by using a helicoil kit. I've heard that it could definitely hold up if installed correctly. We even used some red Loctite on the spring before inserting and breaking the tang. It seems extremely solid. So again, we'll see how it goes.

It's a good thing that my car sees very little travel (i.e to and from work and it's a 2 minute drive each way) so I can be careful, watch, and listen for things.
Thanks for all the info so far guys. It really was helpful.

Feel free to harass me now for what I didn't do right. haha It's to be expected.....

-Brad

Nice going Brad, and good luck on the outcome. Letting other people at the oil drain plug usually Is a bad idea but I'm thinking you know that now... Rick

i don't blame you for having your oil changed by someone else. changing the oil on my M20 was such a pain. the one time i did it, it took me about an hour. i can change the oil on the M42 or S52 in about 10 minutes.

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daniel
i don't blame you for having your oil changed by someone else. changing the oil on my M20 was such a pain. the one time i did it, it took me about an hour.

?? I'm unclear why this should be. Difficulty removing the oil filter, maybe? I change my own oil all the time, in all of my cars, and the E30 is no more difficult or easy than any of the others. Open drain plug, close drain plug, remove oil filter, put on new oil filter, fill with oil. Removing the oil filter can be a little tricky given its position under the exhaust manifold, but it seems like most of the cars I work on put the oil filter in some barely accessible place. Once you work out the right sequence of maneuvers most of them come right out.

Brad, good luck with your engine. Let us know how it turns out. (Good news, I hope!)

__________
Dave
'91 325iX



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 06:13AM by Dave_G.

yes, the oil filter. eventually it involved me hammering a screwdriver through the middle of the filter, then using my body weight to try to get it to unscrew. a simple oil filter wrench wouldn't cut it.

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daniel
yes, the oil filter. eventually it involved me hammering a screwdriver through the middle of the filter, then using my body weight to try to get it to unscrew. a simple oil filter wrench wouldn't cut it.

Oh, yeah, I remember you talking about that. That could happen with any engine, not just an M20. It has little to do with the car, and more to do with how the filter was put on. An overtorqued filter like that is the kind of thing I would expect from a quicky oil change place. When I put filters on, I tighten them to the recommended 3/4 turn after the gasket touches, and I never have trouble getting them off. Many times I can remove it with just my hands, and I'm not that strong. (And the filters don't leak, either. )

__________
Dave
'91 325iX

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Dave_G

Quote
daniel
yes, the oil filter. eventually it involved me hammering a screwdriver through the middle of the filter, then using my body weight to try to get it to unscrew. a simple oil filter wrench wouldn't cut it.

Oh, yeah, I remember you talking about that. That could happen with any engine, not just an M20. It has little to do with the car, and more to do with how the filter was put on. An overtorqued filter like that is the kind of thing I would expect from a quicky oil change place. When I put filters on, I tighten them to the recommended 3/4 turn after the gasket touches, and I never have trouble getting them off. Many times I can remove it with just my hands, and I'm not that strong. (And the filters don't leak, either. )

yeah, it was just a bad experience that i am still bitter about

I am happy to report that the car is running, no oil is leaking anywhere, and all idiot lights are out! Even my ABS light is out now because I replaced the relay that I blew up.

Feels like a new car again. Ok wait, no....it doesn't. But I feel good that I did it all and the car is drivable and the dash is not blinding me with warning lights.

Thanks again for all the help fellas!

awesome to hear, brad!