Replacing Guibo, nothing like the pictures, need help

So I set out to replace the Guibo, rear transmission seal, and center driveshaft bearings.

I have the exhaust dropped entirely, only stripping one of the 6 rusted nuts in the process. I do all that before I realize (naturally) that the Guibo isn't quite how it's pictured in the Bentley, or on a Pelican article (which is for an E36, so I was okay with that).

Here is a picture from the E36 article, which looks exactly like the one from the Bentley in all the ways that are different from my setup.


Two things are different enough to give me pause.
First, on my guibo half the bolts are going one way, the other half are facing the other way. So while this picture has 6 bolts, I have 3 bolts and 3 nuts.
I also, and possibly the bigger trouble, have a protective metal flange that comes out from the transmission side, and wraps around the guibo. It doesn't keep me from getting to one side of the guibo, but keeps me from so much as seeing the back side of the guibo. I have replacement nuts and bolts, but I'm really hesitant to start taking things apart until I know how the heck I'm supposed to hold the opposing nut/bolt still while I tighten the only side of the guibo I can get to...

I believe the guibo protective flange thingy is show in this video of the underside of my car.
[www.youtube.com]

Thanks for any pointers here.

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

The Guibo on ours blew out completely a few years ago. It was a mess, but I was able to drive it home slowly about 13 miles from my sons school. Inside that rubber is a whole lot of string holding it together.

Mine, however, did not have the protective flange. It did have 3 bolts in one direction and 3 in the other. I'm going to guess that the 3 bolts (trans side) are part of the protective flange. Once you remove the 3 bolts and 3 nuts it will come off.

Like I said I'm just guessing here.

I went to RealOEM and looked up the driveshaft... Does this help? Driveshaft
The picture though seems to have the plate on the wrong side.. I'm confused now.

Mine was more like this: Driveshaft no protective plate.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2009 06:33PM by sdp.

Tyler, I did tell you about the scatter shield for the giubo, but here we are These things can be a nightmare, and usually are; got a torch? (seriously). Your set-up sounds right; three going one way and three the other.

I think the drums are a good idea, just a pain in the ass to deal with!

I guess its time to pull the manifolds, hey. Its a great idea so you can put new heatshields on

Did you ever do a compression test?

Rick

Quote
rkj
Tyler, I did tell you about the scatter shield for the giubo, but here we are These things can be a nightmare, and usually are; got a torch? (seriously). Your set-up sounds right; three going one way and three the other.

When you told me about the scatter shield, did you actually tell me about it, or did you make reference to it? I can only find a brief reference to it. I assumed the scatter shield was the underbelly protective plating when you mentioned it
Do you know how to remove it?
Can I just take off the 3 nuts, and twist out the 3 bolts and be good? Does it all go back together the same way? Since the Bentley has it set up differently, it's steps are of little help.
What I don't want to do it get one of the bolts loosened up and find out there is a nut back there I can't get to, and be unable to either remove the bolt, or tighten it back up.
No, I don't have a torch

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I think the drums are a good idea, just a pain in the ass to deal with!

Drums? A term I'm unfamiliar with for something perhaps I am?

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I guess its time to pull the manifolds, hey. Its a great idea so you can put new heatshields on

Did you ever do a compression test?

Rick

Yeah, it's a good thing I took them off. Now I know how bad they were getting before they got too bad to actually come off
I did a compression test 18 months ago, or somewhere in there. She checked out perfectly then. Currently I'm unable to find my compression tester (well, the adapter actually), and without a reason to think my compression is bad, I haven't put too much effort into it. As far as I know, those cylinders are the only still perfect part of my car. I love BMW

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2009 07:57PM by Earendil.

Wasn't there some notation about maintaining the correct relationship between the output shaft and the driveshaft as they are balanced as a unit?

alan

The Drum I was referring to was that one around the guibo, there are nuts on the back side if I remember right, also, the guibo has to sit in there a certain way (has arrows on it) and the bolts have a certain positioning too, I can email you pictures of that.

These shafts can be the devil to get loose (out of the car), sometimes requiring a big hammer and trashing the drum. Last time my current car needed a driveshaft I had my transmission man do it, I also gave him a new exhaust to use. My guibo was so shot it came out in pieces; no torch required!

Pull all the flange nuts and bolts first, both front and rear. Then last drop the center bearing assy. and hope for the best. If you decide to use your old shaft (might be a mistake) center punch alignment marks for the two shafts.

With any luck you'll get the rear of the shaft off the diff and it will pull out of the transmission flange (it won't but then that's when we work harder) B)-

So let me see if I understand this...

You have the driveshaft - guibo - transmission. 6 bolts and nuts, half of them opposing the other.
In my case, I have metal Drum protecting the guibo. This Drum makes it seemingly impossible to get the the transmission side of the nuts/bolts.
Without it being at all obvious, how does one remove the driveshaft? How does one remove the drum? How the heck was the drum even installed by BMW to begin with?!
Like I said, I could start loosing nuts/bolts on the only side of the guibo I can get to, but I'm afraid they will all come partly off, become loose, and without a second wrench on the transmission side, be impossible to either completely get out, or even tighten back up. Is this not a problem?

I'm uploading a video to youtube now that will hopefully show the setup a little bit better. Though taking video while on ones back, with the subject 6 inches from your nose is a little bit of a challenge. I'll post that in a bit.

I'm quite used to not having the perfect tool for the job, but usually I understand the job well enough to devise a tool that will do. I don't even understand how the Drum fits into this entire equation

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

Here is a little look at that Drum for reminders sake.
[www.youtube.com]
I would be supporting the transmission with a jack ad removing the support bar. But that doesn't seem to give me access to the transmission side bolts. It just makes it easier to see what it is I can't get to

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

Read this tread.. maybe it will help...

[www.r3vlimited.com]

Quote
sdp
Read this tread.. maybe it will help...

[www.r3vlimited.com]

Hey thanks! That gives me a little hope. Right now I can't for the life of me, and all the torque I can muster, get the bolts off the diff side of the equation.
I think once I get those off I can "slide" (He says, as if it's easy) the drive shaft with guibo attached away from the transmission, and hopefully have the 3 remaining bolts attaching the Guibo to the drive shaft exposed.

I read on another forum that the metal "Drum" is a secondary balancer (that should be a word), and is not required. Is this the case? It seems a bunch of E30s didn't have them. It also seems like even if it was a secondary balancer, it wouldn't really help "balance" a brand new drive shaft that was not originally balanced with it in mind.

*Goes to spray another coat of WD40 on the rear drive shaft bolts* :undecided:

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

GOT IT (expletives) !!

I was able to just remove the three nuts, and leave the remaining three bolts alone. After that you can follow the Bentley by letting the drive shaft bend in the middle, and then take the two ends off. One addition to the Bentley that I think should have been mentioned, remove the transmission side off the bolts first. If you remove the diff side first, there is no way to get it lower due to the cross brace thingy (technical term) which even though it's slightly lower, gives you no more (and maybe even less) room to maneuver the transmission side. I did have to use a small prybar between the guibo and the drum in order to work the guibo off the remaining half inch of the bolts. Since I am replacing the guibo and the bolts, I found this an acceptable solution.
The last, but very important step I will add, is that once removed the drive shaft should be held above ones head and triumphant wookie sounds made.
That is all.

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 10:41AM by Earendil.

Quote
Earendil
once removed the drive shaft should be held above ones head and triumphant wookie sounds made.

Video of that? Please.

Congrats!

Quote
Earendil


Hey thanks! That gives me a little hope. Right now I can't for the life of me, and all the torque I can muster, get the bolts off the diff side of the equation.
I think once I get those off I can "slide" (He says, as if it's easy) the drive shaft with guibo attached away from the transmission, and hopefully have the 3 remaining bolts attaching the Guibo to the drive shaft exposed.

I read on another forum that the metal "Drum" is a secondary balancer (that should be a word), and is not required. Is this the case? It seems a bunch of E30s didn't have them. It also seems like even if it was a secondary balancer, it wouldn't really help "balance" a brand new drive shaft that was not originally balanced with it in mind.

*Goes to spray another coat of WD40 on the rear drive shaft bolts* :undecided:

Here's a tip on how to get those rear nuts loose. I'll tell you right up front, though, that you can knock all the skin off your knuckles doing this and send wrenches flying all over the place, so be careful.

You need combination wrenches, box end on one end, open end on the other. Stick a really big screwdriver or prybar through the u-joint. You'll hold onto this to keep it from turning. Put the box end of your wrench on the tight nut. Put another wrench's box end over one side of the open end wrench and position it so it works like an extension of the first wrench. Hold the screwdriver or prybar and carefully put pressure on the two wrenches. If it looks like it's all going to stay together, push harder. If the bolt and nut both turn, you're going to have to use your third hand to hold a wrench on the bolt. If it breaks the nut loose, you're home free. If it slips sideways you might be getting some dental work done soon.

Be careful. Take it slow and reposition things if they look iffy. I did this to get those nuts loose on my car and I still have all my teeth.

Good luck with that drum on the front. I didn't have that to deal with.

John

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John Yust
Here's a tip on how to get those rear nuts loose. I'll tell you right up front, though, that you can knock all the skin off your knuckles doing this and send wrenches flying all over the place, so be careful.

After managing a few high velocity wrenches of my own, I finally settled on a method that worked for me. One of my main problems was having the wrench slip off the end of the nut, so I settled on a large pair of vice grips and a 24 inch pipe. This gave me about 30 inches to increase torque with, and with one hand steadying the vice grips (and protecting teeth) and the other arm hooked on the pipe using the inside of my elbow, I managed to break them all loose. Oh yeah, and knees braced against the underside of my car, since I could have done pull ups all day under there and gone nowhere. Bev and I are really close now ;-)

Speaking of torque... One of the nuts was so stuck, I ended up spinning the wheels with the e-brake engaged. And the e-brake was set so tight I could barely release it when I was done

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 11:05AM by Earendil.

Good deal!!!

Yeah.. breaking the nuts on the Diff was a bear when we did it. We used the 2 wrench box-open combo to get enough torque. Someone on the previous forum posted a pic for me and it worked great. I was lucky to not have that "balancer" on mine.

Well at least you are on your way. I'm not looking forward to replacing the blown water pump on our E30 this weekend. Wife is getting tired of our son taking her car.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2009 08:16AM by sdp.

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Earendil

Quote
John Yust
Here's a tip on how to get those rear nuts loose. I'll tell you right up front, though, that you can knock all the skin off your knuckles doing this and send wrenches flying all over the place, so be careful.

After managing a few high velocity wrenches of my own, I finally settled on a method that worked for me. One of my main problems was having the wrench slip off the end of the nut, so I settled on a large pair of vice grips and a 24 inch pipe. This gave me about 30 inches to increase torque with, and with one hand steadying the vice grips (and protecting teeth) and the other arm hooked on the pipe using the inside of my elbow, I managed to break them all loose. Oh yeah, and knees braced against the underside of my car, since I could have done pull ups all day under there and gone nowhere. Bev and I are really close now ;-)

Speaking of torque... One of the nuts was so stuck, I ended up spinning the wheels with the e-brake engaged. And the e-brake was set so tight I could barely release it when I was done

Whatever works getting closer to the beast is a good thing, when its done!

Today was our day to replace the water pump... Got that done and got under the car to replace the engine and transmission mounts. I looked at our Guibo and differential. Our E30 had the dampener too but it was on the back side of the guibo not over it like yours. It appears they decided over the guibo way was stupid.

I wanted to say check your mounts while you are there. Our engine mounts were sheared and the engine was shifted over 2 inches.. It was a bear getting the engine over 2 inches to put the new one on. Pisser was that we lost one of the engine mounts. For the life of me we couldn't find it anywhere. Unbelievable!!! Left the old one in.

Our transmission mounts were completely blown out too. As if you put a M80 in them and blew it up. Luckily the transmission mounts are easy to replace.

Quote
sdp
Today was our day to replace the water pump... Got that done and got under the car to replace the engine and transmission mounts. I looked at our Guibo and differential. Our E30 had the dampener too but it was on the back side of the guibo not over it like yours. It appears they decided over the guibo way was stupid.

I wanted to say check your mounts while you are there. Our engine mounts were sheared and the engine was shifted over 2 inches.. It was a bear getting the engine over 2 inches to put the new one on. Pisser was that we lost one of the engine mounts. For the life of me we couldn't find it anywhere. Unbelievable!!! Left the old one in.

Our transmission mounts were completely blown out too. As if you put a M80 in them and blew it up. Luckily the transmission mounts are easy to replace.

That's odd that it should be in another position (the guibo drum), I've always liked the idea of having it be a scatershield of sorts around the guibo. Can you tell I've had a few let go!

It is hard repositioning the motor after mounts have gone south, that's for sure. The lost mount, was that the rubber part or everything, plates and studs included? Never had one gone missing completely

If the motor mounts are gone its a pretty sure bet the transmission mounts are not far behind.

Rick

My guibo/drum is exactly like in this picture.. Drum behind Guibo

Motor Mount... I lost the brand new one I bought. Can you believe that? It's un-F'n believable. I know I got 2 of them. I either put is somewhere and we'll find it after I buy a replacement. Or since we were working till 10PM on Friday (we finished on Sat), we might have set it down and it rolled down the street and someone took it and/or threw it away. Either way it really pissed me off.

Next big job is replacing the Steering rack one of these days. I'm getting tired of the oil stained asphalt on the street.

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sdp
My guibo/drum is exactly like in this picture.. Drum behind Guibo

Which is exactly how mine is as well.

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

Well no wait... Yours is in front of the guibo. In the drawing as mine is, the drum is behind the Guibo with the guibo completely exposed with access to all bolts and nuts.

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sdp
Well no wait... Yours is in front of the guibo. In the drawing as mine is, the drum is behind the Guibo with the guibo completely exposed with access to all bolts and nuts.

Infront, behind... how about we start saying front and rear (of the car) so I don't get confused ;-)

Mine is set up exactly like the diagram you posted, with the drum attached to the output shaft of the transmission. Next is the guibo, and then the drive shaft. However my drum is probably 3 inches deep, so when the guibo bolts to the output shaft of the transmission, the guibo sinks into the drum, and is surrounded by it. Since the drum is attached to the output shaft, it is hard to get to the front-side of the output shaft. I have suspicions that too much goo was used to attach my drum to the output shaft though, and that is the real reason the bolts are hard to get to. Oh yeah, and I just remembered, you don't actually need to get to the back of the bolts, because the bolts on the output shaft are attached (welded?) on, so no wrench is required to remove the guibo from the output shaft.

This is not true of the three bolts attaching the guibo to the drive shaft, which have not welded and removable bolts with nuts. But since you can completely remove the drive shaft from the car with the guibo attached, the drum does not interfere with removing the guibo from the driveshaft.

Does this seem like what you have? Or do you have something different? The diagram you posted appears to match what I'm describing, and what I've seen. Perhaps I'm bad at describing things :-)

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

Okay, I just realized (dur dur dur) that the guibo does not seem to be pictured in the diagram? Is that what the "universal join" #2 is?

We are going to get this cleared up!
Picture time!

Here is the output of my transmission with the dampner (drum) on it.
I do not have #2 in that diagram, however I have the triangle piece not labeled between #2 and #3 (the dampner)
[w3.gorge.net]

Here is what the transmission looks like after removing the one piece from the output. Nothing left to take off.
[w3.gorge.net]


Here is the rear side (inside) of the drum attached to the output attachment.
[w3.gorge.net]

And the front side (transmission side). Note what the back of the bolts look like (woohoo!)
[w3.gorge.net]

and since the damper (drum) was attached with some sort of silicone/rubber, and was heavily degraded, I just removed it all together.
[w3.gorge.net]

So, my original statement a few posts back was probably wrong. I do not have what is pictured in the diagram, but it's a helluva lot closer to what I have than the other realoem diagrams I've seen

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1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

LOL.. yeah front/rear is better...

Well in that diagram I see it as follows (as is my configuration).. Guibo-drum-driveshaft... you on the other had seem to have Items # 2 & #3 swapped. You have Drum-Guibo-Driveshaft.. In that diagram the guibo is exposed and attached to the front of the drum. The only thing inside the drum is 3 bolts & 3 nuts. The opposite is on the front side of the guibo. My drum is completely solid like the drum of a drum brake... Yours is a ring. Very odd setup.

So are you putting the drum back on? What's your plan? Epoxy or something like that?
___________________

Seems like this guy was in the same place as you...

[www.r3vlimited.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2009 08:47PM by sdp.

Its odd, Tyler, that your drum does not have bolt holes that holds it in place. In your case I would leave it on the bench and don't bother with it although mine is still on and I think its a good idea to have it in place simply to give the guibo some extra protection from coming completely apart.

If your drum is held in place by some sort of adhesive, that seems rinky dink to me

Nice pictures, you made it nice and clear what you have there... Hows reassembly going, don't forget to preload the center bearing hanger and clean all the mating surfaces, a little blue loctite on the nuts is a good idea too. You should be getting good at getting to them by now!

Cheers, Rick