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Power windows

Posted by rkj 
rkj
June 08, 2009 12:53PM
I'm trying to get Janet's passenger side window to go down, just stopped working one day, on her 1987 325e.

I've got juice to the switch, I've tested both sides for matching the layout and the wiring stuff. I think my problem might be in the wiring plug that goes from the door frame to the door frame; do these plugs pull apart, or are the rubber covers first taken off to reveal some other thing/plug or something.

I'd like to know whats what before tearing in to this thing, I might just have a shitty connection/plug that is dirty or corroded.

Thanks for any help, I'm just trying to get the plug to separate or get the boots to come off.

Rick
rkj
June 08, 2009 12:57PM
The rubber accordion wiring cover that goes between the body and the door frame I meant to say eye rolling smiley
June 08, 2009 02:42PM
Quote
rkj
I'm trying to get Janet's passenger side window to go down, just stopped working one day, on her 1987 325e.

I've got juice to the switch, I've tested both sides for matching the layout and the wiring stuff.
*snip*
I might just have a shitty connection/plug that is dirty or corroded.

Rick

I'm not exactly sure I follow what you have tested, but since I recently fixed both my rear windows, I'll share a few things and maybe we can go from there smiling smiley

All switches, including the locking/child switches come apart easily enough, revealing (for me) nicely corroded metal that one can take a sharp piece of metal to and clean right off. This was problem #1 for me.
Problem #2 was that the windows were "gummed up" from not being used. There was a high amount of resistance, but a little WD40 of the cable, and the use of my hands to help it move up and down a few times broke it free.

Here are the steps I'd go through:
1. Use the drivers switch to try and roll it down. Even if it doesn't budge, you should hear the motor attempt to operate. This should happen regardless of the rear switch properly functioning (though it must be plugged in I believe). For trouble shooting, I popped my drivers side window switch out (one I knew to be working properly) and plugged it in.

2a. If you can hear the motor attempting to operate, try and break the window free using firm but careful force. I stood on one foot and operated the drivers switch with my big toe, and used both hands on the window. There are other methods smiling smiley

3a. If you can get the window broken free, go about testing the rear switch, cleaning if needed.

2b. If you don't hear the motor attempting to operate, and you know the switch is good, and you know the switch is getting power, you might just have a bad motor. I don't know exactly what to do here. I suppose you can rip the door apart, operate the switch, and test the wires going into the motor for current.

Though most of the wires in my car are corroding, breaking, and otherwise dieing horrible deaths, the wiring to the window switches/motor was pretty good gauge wire, and seemed to be in great (original) condition for a car with aprox 250,xxx miles on it. But it could still be the wiring its self causing the problem. My first suspects though would be the switches, and high resistance in the operation of the window due to lack of use.
rkj
June 08, 2009 03:20PM
Thanks (Tyler?), the switches are all good, I exchanged them, no difference.

Power windows are old acquaintances of mine (I used to work at a lincoln mercury dealership); if you push the button and watch the interior lamp, it should dim momentarily if the window motor is jammed or not workin, but it does mean the motor is getting juice. If the lamp does not dim then its usually no juice to the switch or the switch itself is shot...

In my case its hard to tell even with the window that is working; the lamp hardly dims when the window goes up/down. But on the pass side there is no dimming of the lamp when the switch is pressed down, leading me to believe there's no juice going to the motor and nothing auditory heard one way or the other.

That's what lead me to the wiring between the door and the jam; I uncovered the jam boot plug cover and there is a large white plastic plug that I couldn't get to pull out, it has two detents you push in to release the plug but I still could not get it to budge. :? It all looks brand new in there though, the plug rubber cover was/is totally intact and sealing everything perfectly... I guess its pull the door panel time and see whats happin at the motor, shit.
June 08, 2009 05:12PM
Quote
rkj
I'm trying to get Janet's passenger side window to go down, just stopped working one day, on her 1987 325e.

I've got juice to the switch, I've tested both sides for matching the layout and the wiring stuff. I think my problem might be in the wiring plug that goes from the door frame to the door frame; do these plugs pull apart, or are the rubber covers first taken off to reveal some other thing/plug or something.

I'd like to know whats what before tearing in to this thing, I might just have a shitty connection/plug that is dirty or corroded.

Thanks for any help, I'm just trying to get the plug to separate or get the boots to come off.

Rick

Rick,

The rubber boot simply pulls back out of the way. Then you have the white plastic connector exposed with the wires coming out of it. Use a pair of needle nosed pliers to pull the plug portion out of the socket. Sometimes, it can be a little tough but it will come out.
Inspect both the pins and matching sockets for corrosion. Clean them up as best you can and spray liberal amounts of electrical contact cleaner on both the plug and the socket. Push the plug back in and pull it out two or three times and it should make good all those connections.
If the window still doesn't work the open the door an put your palms on either side of the window so you can push it up/down while pressing the window switch with your toe or a helper's finger. Usually this will get the window motor unstuck and a few cycles of running the window up and down should have it back to snuff.

I had this problem last year on the back windows that never got used...now I run them up and down a couple of times once a month to keep them happy smileys with beer
rkj
June 08, 2009 09:48PM
Quote
Archeo-peteriX
Quote
rkj
I'm trying to get Janet's passenger side window to go down, just stopped working one day, on her 1987 325e.

I've got juice to the switch, I've tested both sides for matching the layout and the wiring stuff. I think my problem might be in the wiring plug that goes from the door frame to the door frame; do these plugs pull apart, or are the rubber covers first taken off to reveal some other thing/plug or something.

I'd like to know whats what before tearing in to this thing, I might just have a shitty connection/plug that is dirty or corroded.

Thanks for any help, I'm just trying to get the plug to separate or get the boots to come off.

Rick

Rick,

The rubber boot simply pulls back out of the way. Then you have the white plastic connector exposed with the wires coming out of it. Use a pair of needle nosed pliers to pull the plug portion out of the socket. Sometimes, it can be a little tough but it will come out.
Inspect both the pins and matching sockets for corrosion. Clean them up as best you can and spray liberal amounts of electrical contact cleaner on both the plug and the socket. Push the plug back in and pull it out two or three times and it should make good all those connections.
If the window still doesn't work the open the door an put your palms on either side of the window so you can push it up/down while pressing the window switch with your toe or a helper's finger. Usually this will get the window motor unstuck and a few cycles of running the window up and down should have it back to snuff.

I had this problem last year on the back windows that never got used...now I run them up and down a couple of times once a month to keep them happy smileys with beer

So Archie, that plastic plug comes out entirely with the wires attached to it? Seems like it should. There's a little T shaped plastic piece that pulled out of the middle of the plug.

I hate plastic sad smiley Thanks
June 09, 2009 09:06AM
Quote
rkj
...

So Archie, that plastic plug comes out entirely with the wires attached to it? Seems like it should. There's a little T shaped plastic piece that pulled out of the middle of the plug.

I hate plastic sad smiley Thanks

Yep, that's how it works.
Not sure about a 'T' shaped piece unless the plastic is brittle and some broke off...
June 09, 2009 09:50AM
The T-shaped piece is handy later for pushing on with your thumb when pressing the connector back in.

I used some needle-nose pliers to grab a hold of the plastic, around where that T-shaped piece comes out of. Pull the male portion of the connector straight out.

The little tabs you see around the periphery of the plastic plug, where it seats into the A-pillar, are for retaining the female half of the plug into the A-pillar. After you have pulled out the male portion of the connector, then you can depress those tabs to unseat the female portion.

On my car the connector pins inside the plug looked mostly okay. The wire connections had rusted and failed behind the female portion, where the wires inside the A-pillar connect to the pins on the back side of the female portion of the plug.

Just one small bit advice. While you have the connectors unplugged and dangling loose, make absolutely sure not to let the wind blow the door closed as that will squash the plastic connector plugs making it more difficult to properly fit things back together later. Um, don't ask...
rkj
June 11, 2009 05:56PM
Quote
Ferdinand
The T-shaped piece is handy later for pushing on with your thumb when pressing the connector back in.

I used some needle-nose pliers to grab a hold of the plastic, around where that T-shaped piece comes out of. Pull the male portion of the connector straight out.

The little tabs you see around the periphery of the plastic plug, where it seats into the A-pillar, are for retaining the female half of the plug into the A-pillar. After you have pulled out the male portion of the connector, then you can depress those tabs to unseat the female portion.

On my car the connector pins inside the plug looked mostly okay. The wire connections had rusted and failed behind the female portion, where the wires inside the A-pillar connect to the pins on the back side of the female portion of the plug.

Just one small bit advice. While you have the connectors unplugged and dangling loose, make absolutely sure not to let the wind blow the door closed as that will squash the plastic connector plugs making it more difficult to properly fit things back together later. Um, don't ask...

Ferdy, That flat top plastic thingy has a purpose, I knew it, crafty Germans thumbs up thanks for all the information, exactly what I needed to start pulling things apart.... The wind, yes, us sailors know about that tricky Mistress eye rolling smiley
June 12, 2009 03:56PM
Quote
Ferdinand
Just one small bit advice. While you have the connectors unplugged and dangling loose, make absolutely sure not to let the wind blow the door closed as that will squash the plastic connector plugs making it more difficult to properly fit things back together later. Um, don't ask...
Looks like most of the people working on those connectors come accross the closing door issue sooner or later. Had the same thing once, though I think I slammed the door myself, not the wind.
rkj
June 12, 2009 06:59PM
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Michiel 318iS
Quote
Ferdinand
Just one small bit advice. While you have the connectors unplugged and dangling loose, make absolutely sure not to let the wind blow the door closed as that will squash the plastic connector plugs making it more difficult to properly fit things back together later. Um, don't ask...
Looks like most of the people working on those connectors come accross the closing door issue sooner or later. Had the same thing once, though I think I slammed the door myself, not the wind.

Don't ya hate it when that happens smiling bouncing smiley
June 13, 2009 11:04AM
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rkj
Quote
Michiel 318iS
Quote
Ferdinand
Just one small bit advice. While you have the connectors unplugged and dangling loose, make absolutely sure not to let the wind blow the door closed as that will squash the plastic connector plugs making it more difficult to properly fit things back together later. Um, don't ask...
Looks like most of the people working on those connectors come accross the closing door issue sooner or later. Had the same thing once, though I think I slammed the door myself, not the wind.

Don't ya hate it when that happens smiling bouncing smiley

Slightly OT...
I guy I know from slammed his door once and it didn't shut, so he slammed it again. Turns out it was his iPhone that was blocking the door from shutting. Besides a little crack in the screen it still worked flawlessly.
The Bonus: It was his development environment for a huge senior computer science project that he was working on with two other guys. Their only development environment smiling smiley

So Rick, how are the windows coming? Functioning properly?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1989 - E30 - M20 - Manual. Approximately 270,000 miles
2000 - E46 - M52TUB28 - Manual. Approximately 110,000 miles

rkj
June 13, 2009 11:06PM
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Earendil
Quote
rkj
Quote
Michiel 318iS
Quote
Ferdinand
Just one small bit advice. While you have the connectors unplugged and dangling loose, make absolutely sure not to let the wind blow the door closed as that will squash the plastic connector plugs making it more difficult to properly fit things back together later. Um, don't ask...
Looks like most of the people working on those connectors come accross the closing door issue sooner or later. Had the same thing once, though I think I slammed the door myself, not the wind.

Don't ya hate it when that happens smiling bouncing smiley

Slightly OT...
I guy I know from slammed his door once and it didn't shut, so he slammed it again. Turns out it was his iPhone that was blocking the door from shutting. Besides a little crack in the screen it still worked flawlessly.
The Bonus: It was his development environment for a huge senior computer science project that he was working on with two other guys. Their only development environment smiling smiley

So Rick, how are the windows coming? Functioning properly?

She runs the car hard, the next time it and me are here we'll have another go at it.

I don't have a very good track record with this car oddly enough, and I've tried my best; it just doesn't like me much- I say, big deal, get in line spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
June 15, 2009 12:16PM
Makes me really mad at myself!
June 15, 2009 03:17PM
Quote
Michiel 318iS
Looks like most of the people working on those connectors come across the closing door issue sooner or later. Had the same thing once, though I think I slammed the door myself, not the wind.
Okay, okay, so I'll admit it wasn't actually the wind in my case either.

I just didn't think anybody here would believe anyone could be so stupid as to slam the door themselves. (blush)
rkj
June 15, 2009 06:33PM
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Ferdinand
Quote
Michiel 318iS
Looks like most of the people working on those connectors come across the closing door issue sooner or later. Had the same thing once, though I think I slammed the door myself, not the wind.
Okay, okay, so I'll admit it wasn't actually the wind in my case either.

I just didn't think anybody here would believe anyone could be so stupid as to slam the door themselves. (blush)

smiling bouncing smiley grinning smiley eye rolling smiley spinning smiley sticking its tongue out hot smiley
June 16, 2009 01:02PM
The wind is a bit too obvious... The wife, the dog, the neighbour's kids... You could've blamed them all, but the wind... HELLO?

grinning smiley
rkj
June 16, 2009 01:07PM
Alright Ferdy, you actually have to push those two side detent clips in to get the plug out of the jam plug(its mate that stays put); if you pull that push thingy off you can get a long nose pliers right in there and pull the plug out of its socket providing you push the two latches inward.

I've got good juice at the plug so I guess its into the door we go, Oh goody sad smiley

Will the motors interchange; left and right on the tudoors?, I've got a whole set-up in stock but its for the drivers side. Janet's is the passenger side that's bad ....damit

Thanks, Rick
June 16, 2009 06:14PM
Quote
rkj
Alright Ferdy, you actually have to push those two side detent clips in to get the plug out of the jam plug(its mate that stays put); if you pull that push thingy off you can get a long nose pliers right in there and pull the plug out of its socket providing you push the two latches inward.

I've got good juice at the plug so I guess its into the door we go, Oh goody sad smiley

Will the motors interchange; left and right on the tudoors?, I've got a whole set-up in stock but its for the drivers side. Janet's is the passenger side that's bad ....damit

Thanks, Rick

Have you tried grabbing the window and lifting/pushing while someone works the switch?
rkj
June 16, 2009 10:16PM
I did Peter, today, but I'm not that strong yet. I had Janet try it too but no dice. Its funny; one day it worked fine next day nothing confused smiley its like the plug fell off the motor.

As soon as she stops working 24x7 I'll get that door panel off and see whats happen in dare eye rolling smiley my favorite job!
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