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Posted by wodcutr 
March 29, 2009 08:37PM
Hey everyone, I just acquired a new addition to my family a silver 91 318i. It came with some after market rims on it and when you turn the steering wheel all the way you can hear the tires rub somewhere. They are American Racing Estrella rims that are 14x6 with an offset of 35mm and the backside has a 4 7/8 measurement (what ever that means). Right now they have 195/65/14 on them. I was wondering if I went with a 195/60/14 if that would eliminate the rubbing problem or if they need spacers to correct the problem? The rims are in really good shape and not too bad of a look, although I would rather see weaves or bottlecaps on these cars. I need new rubber anyway so I figured if a smaller tire would work then maybe that is the route to go. What say you? Thanks for the info!

Dan
March 29, 2009 09:14PM
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wodcutr
Hey everyone, I just acquired a new addition to my family a silver 91 318i. It came with some after market rims on it and when you turn the steering wheel all the way you can hear the tires rub somewhere. They are American Racing Estrella rims that are 14x6 with an offset of 35mm and the backside has a 4 7/8 measurement (what ever that means). Right now they have 195/65/14 on them. I was wondering if I went with a 195/60/14 if that would eliminate the rubbing problem or if they need spacers to correct the problem? The rims are in really good shape and not too bad of a look, although I would rather see weaves or bottlecaps on these cars. I need new rubber anyway so I figured if a smaller tire would work then maybe that is the route to go. What say you? Thanks for the info!

Dan

The offset is about 10mm too much so the tires are rubbing on the inside. Since you are not changing the tire width by dropping to the 60 series, you'll still have the problem. Your best bet would be spacers along with longer lug bolts.
Putting narrower tires on the wheels will not only make the car look anemic but probably reduce the handling capabilities.
March 30, 2009 08:18AM
peter is right. a 10mm spacer would do the trick.


March 30, 2009 09:10AM
Where would you get the spacers and bolts from and do I need to do all four wheels or just the front?
March 30, 2009 11:28AM
well, technically you need to only do the front, but from a looks perspective it might be a little weird, so i would suggest spacing all four corners.

8mm
[www.turnermotorsport.com]

15mm for a slightly wider stance
[www.turnermotorsport.com]

the links for the lug bolts to be paired with the spacers are on those pages, also.


March 30, 2009 12:23PM
Thanks for the info Daniel & Peter!
March 30, 2009 12:24PM
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daniel
well, technically you need to only do the front, but from a looks perspective it might be a little weird, so i would suggest spacing all four corners.
...

I would think that doing only the front or rear would change the tread/track and alter the steering geometry slightly. Someone as attuned to his car as Ove or Dave G might notice some adverse handling.

I definitely have to agree on the looks...cars like the Ferd Tempo had a wider tread at the rear than the front and always looked weird; same with cars like the old Citroen.
Wheels that form a nice rectangle seem to look best thumbs up
April 09, 2009 09:25AM
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Archeo-peteriX
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wodcutr
Hey everyone, I just acquired a new addition to my family a silver 91 318i. It came with some after market rims on it and when you turn the steering wheel all the way you can hear the tires rub somewhere. They are American Racing Estrella rims that are 14x6 with an offset of 35mm and the backside has a 4 7/8 measurement (what ever that means). Right now they have 195/65/14 on them. I was wondering if I went with a 195/60/14 if that would eliminate the rubbing problem or if they need spacers to correct the problem? The rims are in really good shape and not too bad of a look, although I would rather see weaves or bottlecaps on these cars. I need new rubber anyway so I figured if a smaller tire would work then maybe that is the route to go. What say you? Thanks for the info!

Dan

The offset is about 10mm too much so the tires are rubbing on the inside. Since you are not changing the tire width by dropping to the 60 series, you'll still have the problem. Your best bet would be spacers along with longer lug bolts.
Putting narrower tires on the wheels will not only make the car look anemic but probably reduce the handling capabilities.

So is the proper offset 25mm or 45mm? I am looking at different rims and wanted to make sure which offset is correct! The sites seem to have all the 5 lug rims for BMWs with an offset of 38mm...is that just because the E36 and newer cars have 15" rims?
April 09, 2009 09:48AM
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wodcutr
So is the proper offset 25mm or 45mm? I am looking at different rims and wanted to make sure which offset is correct! The sites seem to have all the 5 lug rims for BMWs with an offset of 38mm...is that just because the E36 and newer cars have 15" rims?
The stock offset for E30 7-inch wide wheels is 24mm (28mm for the 6-inch wide wheels), but anything within 4-5mm of that should be fine.

Offset is the distance between the centerline of the wheel and the mounting surface of the wheel. The larger the offset, the closer the wheel is positioned to the center of the car. Smaller offsets will make the wheels stick out to the sides more. If you use too large an offset, you risk rubbing your tires on the suspension. Too small an offset, and you risk rubbing on the fenders.

I don't know about E36 wheels, so I can't comment on the ET 38mm wheels you're seeing. That is a very common offset for FWD cars, however, which in general tend to use higher-offset wheels.

I'm not a fan of spacers, which some people use to push the wheels out to the side more, countering the effects of using a wheel with too high an offset. It's just one more unnecessary piece in there to be unbalanced, loose, or crooked. Others will disagree and say there's nothing to worry about, but IMHO you're better off just getting the right wheels to start with.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
April 09, 2009 01:12PM
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Dave_G
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wodcutr
So is the proper offset 25mm or 45mm? I am looking at different rims and wanted to make sure which offset is correct! The sites seem to have all the 5 lug rims for BMWs with an offset of 38mm...is that just because the E36 and newer cars have 15" rims?
The stock offset for E30 7-inch wide wheels is 24mm (28mm for the 6-inch wide wheels), but anything within 4-5mm of that should be fine.

Offset is the distance between the centerline of the wheel and the mounting surface of the wheel. The larger the offset, the closer the wheel is positioned to the center of the car. Smaller offsets will make the wheels stick out to the sides more. If you use too large an offset, you risk rubbing your tires on the suspension. Too small an offset, and you risk rubbing on the fenders.

I don't know about E36 wheels, so I can't comment on the ET 38mm wheels you're seeing. That is a very common offset for FWD cars, however, which in general tend to use higher-offset wheels.

I'm not a fan of spacers, which some people use to push the wheels out to the side more, countering the effects of using a wheel with too high an offset. It's just one more unnecessary piece in there to be unbalanced, loose, or crooked. Others will disagree and say there's nothing to worry about, but IMHO you're better off just getting the right wheels to start with.

So if I understand all this I should be looking for 4 lug 4x100 15"x7" with a 24mm offset. The proper tire size would then be 205/60/15 for the speedometer to be correct?
April 09, 2009 02:20PM
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wodcutr
So if I understand all this I should be looking for 4 lug 4x100 15"x7" with a 24mm offset. The proper tire size would then be 205/60/15 for the speedometer to be correct?

the proper tire size for a 15 inch wheel on an e30 is 205/55-15. you can even put a 225/50-15 on there if you want a wider track.

as for wheel size, you should be looking for a 15x7, 15x7.5, or even 15x8 if you want, 4x100 lug pattern, ideally with a 57.1mm centerbore (in order to avoid using hubcentric rings or hubcentric spacers, which are ok if necessary). As Dave said, the correct offset for a 15x7 wheel on an e30 is ET24 plus or minus about 4mm. for a 15x8 wheel you would need an offset lower than ET20 in order to keep the wheel from hitting the strut or shock.

If you do happen to get wheels with a high offset, there is nothing wrong with spacers as long as you get them from a reputable spacer seller, like turner motorsport. Some argue that it is extra unsprung weight, but there hasn't been much proof that it makes any difference, at least for non-track driving.

From a looks perspective, a correct, or low offset wheel without a spacer looks better than a high offset wheel with a spacer. just a thought.

Don't worry about E36 offset, as they are all 5-lug.


April 09, 2009 04:37PM
So what do you think about these wheels? I like these better than the five spoke ones from LTW made specifically for the E30 at Turner motorsport. There really is not much selection out there. I really like the BBS three piece rims but they are spendy!
April 09, 2009 05:33PM
that link isnt working. you should look in the r3vlimited wheel classifieds to get an idea of what is available.

[r3vlimited.com]


April 09, 2009 07:37PM
Try this one

They are the team dynamics pro race 1.3 rims from bimmerworld.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 07:40PM by wodcutr.
April 09, 2009 08:11PM
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wodcutr
They are the team dynamics pro race 1.3 rims from bimmerworld.
Hey, those are my track wheels! I have two sets of Pro Race 1.2 wheels (same as the 1.3 but slightly heavier) for my Miata track car. They're excellent wheels. They are very popular in both the Spec Miata and Spec E30 racing worlds, because they are fairly light, strong, and relatively cheap. (Miatas and E30s use the exact same wheels, except Miatas usually run offsets of about 30-40 vs. 20-30 for E30s).

They probably won't win you any car shows, but IMHO they're not bad looking. I like the fact that they're functional first and stylish second. Here's a pic of my bronze set on my Miata. (My other set is black and ugly, but I prefer them because of their smaller offset.) I think the silver ones would look pretty good on an E30.



I've used the well-used ugly black ones on the E30, but sorry, I don't have any good pics of them. (One nice thing about having an iX is that because the iX has a stock offset of 41mm, I can swap wheels with the Miata.)

The other very popular track wheel that's similar to the Team Dynamics in size, price, weight, and strength is the 15x7 Kosei K1 Racing wheel, but it's a 6-spoke wheel that looks quite a bit different. I have a set on the iX for the summer, but unfortunately I don't have any pics. Personally I like the looks of the Team Dynamics wheels better anyway. Also, you can get center caps for the Team Dynamics wheels, but not for the Koseis. That's not an issue in competition, but it is for a nice-looking set for the street.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
April 09, 2009 09:11PM
Quote
wodcutr
Try this one

They are the team dynamics pro race 1.3 rims from bimmerworld.

hehe, the link still didn't work, but i did a search for the pro race 1.3's to see what you were trying to link to.

here is a set i just found on tirerack.com [www.tirerack.com]

good price, lightweight, correct offset, correct centerbore, and come with centercaps.


April 10, 2009 09:43AM
Those are similar but the center portion is a bit different in that it is not drilled for two different lug patterns and does not require a hub cap type thingamabob to cover those holes. I have also found some old school five spoke rims that seem interesting just because they were the first ones to come up with that particular design. They are racing dynamic RGP and a guy locally has three for sale for $50. I guess if I am going to do that I would need to find a fourth one and I have no idea what condition they are in. I was curious about how the car feels with a 205 wide tire on it. Obviously you will get better traction with a bigger patch, but how does it effect the steering and feel in a hard corner maneuver? Will the wider tires effect my gas mileage? I would link you to some sites but apparently I still do not know how to do that as both the earlier links do not work! They did when I tested them before I posted, but now they do not!
April 10, 2009 09:46AM
I just clicked on my link and it worked...maybe I do know how to post links!
April 10, 2009 10:36AM
Quote
wodcutr
Those are similar but the center portion is a bit different in that it is not drilled for two different lug patterns and does not require a hub cap type thingamabob to cover those holes. I have also found some old school five spoke rims that seem interesting just because they were the first ones to come up with that particular design. They are racing dynamic RGP and a guy locally has three for sale for $50. I guess if I am going to do that I would need to find a fourth one and I have no idea what condition they are in. I was curious about how the car feels with a 205 wide tire on it. Obviously you will get better traction with a bigger patch, but how does it effect the steering and feel in a hard corner maneuver? Will the wider tires effect my gas mileage? I would link you to some sites but apparently I still do not know how to do that as both the earlier links do not work! They did when I tested them before I posted, but now they do not!

the wheels i posted on tirerack do not have more than one lug-pattern. look closely and you will see there is only one set of lug-bolts.

i think i know which RD wheels you are talking about. those are nice, but they might be kind of rare, so it might be hard to find just one for sale.

The car will be influenced more by the road with a wider tire, so grooves in the road will pull your car left or right slightly more than 195 tires would, but it isnt bad or anything. technically yes, your gas mileage will be slightly worse. also, the tire patch isn't bigger, it is only a different shape. in terms of cornering, you could theoretically have better handling with a 205 compared to a 195, but with a size difference so small, tire compound is probably more important in terms of determining handling.

as for the links, maybe it has something to do with our browsers? or maybe the links require having visited that site previously, or something? who knows.


April 18, 2009 05:49PM
Hey I was looking today at a rim I have as a spare and it is a 14"x5.5" steelie with an et35. This is a stock BMW rim. How come an after market rim will not work for the E30 with an offset of 35? Is this because the rim is only 5.5" and not 6 to 7" wide? Just curious.
April 19, 2009 02:51AM
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wodcutr
Hey I was looking today at a rim I have as a spare and it is a 14"x5.5" steelie with an et35. This is a stock BMW rim. How come an after market rim will not work for the E30 with an offset of 35? Is this because the rim is only 5.5" and not 6 to 7" wide? Just curious.

yes, the wider the wheel at that offset could create rubbing issues at full lock, or make the wheel simply not fit because of interference with the strut. generally speaking, the wider the wheel, the lower the offset must be to fit...until you start running into the fender.


April 19, 2009 06:04AM
This link might help explain it: Wheel Offset Calculator

It's important to note that in addition to the running issues that Daniel mentioned, getting too far away from the recommended offset can also affect handling.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
April 25, 2009 08:59AM
How much bigger is a 195/70/r14 than a 195/65/r14 and would they fit an E30?
April 25, 2009 11:10AM
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wodcutr
How much bigger is a 195/70/r14 than a 195/65/r14 and would they fit an E30?
3.2%

See the handy Tire Size Calculator for details.

I don't know whether they would fit. If I was forced to guess, I'd say yes, but it would be just a guess.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
April 25, 2009 11:40AM
That is pretty cool to have that to work with. It looks to me that that size tire is about the same difference as having 205/60/15 which would effect the speedometer about 2 mph @ 60. BMW also says that 195/60/14 is an acceptable tire size too, but they are smaller and would effect the speedo in the opposite direction so you would really be only going 58 instead of 60 mph with those tire on. Besides smaller does not look as good as bigger IMO so if I had a choice I would go with the 195/70/14 over the 195/60/14. Of course 195/65/14 would be ideal!!
April 25, 2009 01:47PM
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wodcutr
That is pretty cool to have that to work with. It looks to me that that size tire is about the same difference as having 205/60/15 which would effect the speedometer about 2 mph @ 60. BMW also says that 195/60/14 is an acceptable tire size too, but they are smaller and would effect the speedo in the opposite direction so you would really be only going 58 instead of 60 mph with those tire on. Besides smaller does not look as good as bigger IMO so if I had a choice I would go with the 195/70/14 over the 195/60/14. Of course 195/65/14 would be ideal!!

you shouldnt have trouble finding 195/65-14 or 205/60-14, which are the proper diameter.


April 25, 2009 02:29PM
you shouldnt have trouble finding 195/65-14 or 205/60-14, which are the proper diameter.[/quote]

Actually the proper size id 215/60-14. I have used that size often and it works well.

Salut Bob P.
April 25, 2009 02:32PM
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daniel


you shouldnt have trouble finding 195/65-14 or 205/60-14, which are the proper diameter.

Actually the correct "larger" size is 215/60-14, which I have used often, when I could find it.

salut, Bob p.
April 25, 2009 08:31PM
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Bob P 325is 88
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daniel


you shouldnt have trouble finding 195/65-14 or 205/60-14, which are the proper diameter.

Actually the correct "larger" size is 215/60-14, which I have used often, when I could find it.

salut, Bob p.

if by correct "larger" size, you mean larger diameter, then sure, but the diameter of 215/60-14 tires is larger than the proper diameter for the e30.


April 26, 2009 10:34AM
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daniel
if by correct "larger" size, you mean larger diameter, then sure, but the diameter of 215/60-14 tires is larger than the proper diameter for the e30.

No, I mean that the 215/60-14 size is closer to the 195/65-14 size diameter than the 205/60-14 size, albeit on the high side. The 205/60 dia. is off by a greater amount, but on the low side. In other word the speedometer is less off with the 215 size than with 205 size, showing slower than "real" speed. However, when factoring the already 3% "optimism" of our speedometers, the using 215/60s corrects that nicely to show "real" speed. With the 205s errors the indicated speed is even more optimistic!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 01:51PM by daniel.
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