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CLUTCH failure after a long stop (Hi there! It's along time!!! smiling smiley

Posted by rafferox 
Hi people! It's a long time I don't get in here...
So after 5 months of stop I've refound "the lady". Engine start perfectly at the first attempt. BUT... the clutch pedal seem work (it back I'had fixed it recently) only gears can't get in... It sound like the clutch disc has not been disengaged... I'm posting it straight here but I'm sure the solution already exist here around, It is just hard by keywords, a little complicate. Just an useful link would be appreciate... Greetings from Toulouse (France)

P.S. I've read the "haynes" but there's not an accurate explaination in the "fault finding" chapter.

(OO=III=OO)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 08:18AM by rafferox.
You should check the fluid in the brake fluid reservoir and perhaps bleed the clutch slave cylinder of any air. It may have leaked while it was parked. Might have to replace the seals in the slave cylinder. Could be the slave cylinder is corroded and needs to be replaced due to collection of water inside while parked.

Bob in Everett
Yup, that's exactly what it sounds like to me, too.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
One other possibility would be that the clutch disk is stuck to the pressure plate or flywheel and could be forced loose by putting the transmission in 5th gear and depressing the clutch pedal before attempting to start the engine. You could also keep a foot on the brake while you do this. The torque from the starter might break loose the stuck plate.

Bob in Everett
That was my thought as well, could be he'd need to drive the car, depress the clutch and get some load into the drivetrain (on and offf throttle, sudden braking,...)
rkj
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Michiel 318iS
That was my thought as well, could be he'd need to drive the car, depress the clutch and get some load into the drivetrain (on and offf throttle, sudden braking,...)

That's what I gathered too, judging by his broken english. If that is the case, the clutch usually does come free without too much effort. Sometimes just rocking the car back and forth with the clutch in (in gear) will do the trick.

Hey rafferox, got a few buddies? smileys with beer

Cheers, Rick
Oh my "broken english" ! smiling smiley

Thank you everybody!

a) I don't think it could belong to the master-slave cylinder. I replaced the whole just less than 2 years ago.
B) The fluid in the brake fluid is ok.
While I press the clutch pedal I can "feel" its resistance correct, normal.
The problem is that I can't put any gear (has been parked in "N"), but I'll try to force the 5th and try to release the clutch as suggested by rkj (yes of sure for buddies! smileys with beer
rkj
Hey, you got your point across! Hopefully, a little effort will give you a car to drive. Good Luck smileys with beer

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rafferox
Oh my "broken english" ! smiling smiley

Thank you everybody!

a) I don't think it could belong to the master-slave cylinder. I replaced the whole just less than 2 years ago.
B) The fluid in the brake fluid is ok.
While I press the clutch pedal I can "feel" its resistance correct, normal.
The problem is that I can't put any gear (has been parked in "N"), but I'll try to force the 5th and try to release the clutch as suggested by rkj (yes of sure for buddies! smileys with beer
:dance:
What I've done:
- Engine off, gears get in. I've put the 5th and I've pushed the beloved forward and backward for a few inch.
- Engine on everithing work perfectly again.

THANK YOU!
Congratulations!
Don't you just love the free fixes? smileys with beer
rkj
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Archeo-peteriX
Congratulations!
Don't you just love the free fixes? smileys with beer

I know I do! :eyes:
Now fix my stuck hand brake rotors for free please. Can't get the rear discs off... Tried WD40 on them, hammered them until my muffler fell apart, lowered tyre pressure, added 100 kg to the car and pulled it with a chain block, all no use...
There is a hole in the spindle for each lug bolt which will provide access to the adjustment mechanism with screw driver to loosen the shoes. This might be helpful. I have been trying to get mine off too as they are getting worn. After I discovered the parking brake adjustment and got them tightened up. I don't mind them being worn so much.

Bob in Everett
Tried that route, problem is that the brake shoe is kinda welded to the small drum inside the disc (stood for too long and now both are rusted into one piece)
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Michiel 318iS
Can't get the rear discs off... Tried WD40 on them, hammered them until my muffler fell apart.

A few ideas:

1. WD40 is useless as a penetrating oil. I don't know what's available in Europe, but here in North America there are far, far better choices, most notably Kroil and PB Blaster. PB Blaster is easier to find, but some people claim that Kroil works better, plus it smells better.

2. Use a bigger hammer. Seriously, this is often one of those jobs that calls for as big a hammer as you can swing. And now that your muffler has already fallen apart, you don't need to worry about it any more. smiling smiley

3. Heat. Don't bother with propane -- it isn't hot enough. Get a MAPP gas torch (usually used for plumbing) and heat that sucker up until you start worrying about burning down the neighborhood.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
I'd be careful with that heat. Could damage the bearings. These bearings are sealed and the grease could be damaged with too much heat as well as the bearing races. Anything over 300 deg F will start to soften the bearings but the grease will start giving up long before that.

Also a large hammer could cause the bearings to get dents in the races from the balls. This will cause the bearing failure for sure. Some antisize spray may be the best bet. Rocking the car back and forth should be all that is needed to break loose the rusted shoes. The problem may be the cable that pulls the brake mechanism. The cable may be rusted and refusing to release the shoes. Some spray on that cable and the flexing of it to work it loose may be most beneficial.

Bob in Everett
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Bob in Everett
I'd be careful with that heat. Could damage the bearings.

Yeah, good point. I was thinking more of the outer portion of the drums rather than near the wheel bearing, but yeah, you don't want to overheat the bearings.

__________
Dave
'91 325iX
rkj
I would say a combination of both Bobs and Daves advice. Getting things that are frozen apart can be a test of strenght, will and, a few brain cells... (why won't my spell check work here!)

Make sure the hand brake cable isn't holding anything like has been said and then get in there and take charge. I always have my torch handy (and a baby sledge) though. It's a take no prisioner kind of thing :wavey:

Good Luck, and remember, eye and ear protection will be the outfit of choice smileys with beer
Aren't there 2 allen head screws which hold the disc onto the hub?
Oh, yeah, I forgot about the retainer screw, Probably stripped out the hex head too. Just drill out the head and it will fall off. Then the rest of the scew can be removed...or not. The disk still may not come off easily. I put a gear puller on mine and torqued it till I thought it might bend. Decided to let it stay there a while longer while I thought about how to get another angle on getting it off.

Bob in Everett



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2014 09:21PM by Bob in Everett.
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rkj
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Archeo-peteriX
Congratulations!
Don't you just love the free fixes? smileys with beer

I know I do! :eyes:

Is wonderfull when things go back to the way they sould!

I had the slave cylinder leaking in the Benz, not fun. Made a highway trip about 400km with barely any clutch function, the worst was get the car moving again from complete stop at the toll. But I got it home safely, and to the shop next day. smiling smiley
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rkj
I would say a combination of both Bobs and Daves advice. Getting things that are frozen apart can be a test of strenght, will and, a few brain cells... (why won't my spell check work here!)

Make sure the hand brake cable isn't holding anything like has been said and then get in there and take charge. I always have my torch handy (and a baby sledge) though. It's a take no prisioner kind of thing :wavey:

Good Luck, and remember, eye and ear protection will be the outfit of choice smileys with beer

When parts are stuck with rust, banging with a hammer should crack the rust and break things loose again. Just don't get too excited with the hammer, to avoid damaging other parts.
And move that car every other month, that should keep things working.

:wavey:
This saturday i thought about this and witnessed befrore me the neatest way to solve the problem.

My neighbor next door has a garage filled with over 100000€ worth of cars, one of which is a clean e30 320is ...
This Saturday we had the first sunny weekend in several months, so he came to bring the cars out to clean the mould and recharge the batteries and overall enjoy the fine cars he has stored.
Anyway, his red Porsche 911 3.0 SC had the brake stuck, after few months sitting.

(here in action in this movie: [youtu.be] )

He started the car, in neutral, and left it to idle until warm.
Then, e shut it off, and engaged 1st gear.
Then, gave a touch with the starting engine, to break things loose again. It was jsut a touch with the starting engine, he didn't wanted to start the car at that moment.
Sure enough, the car was free to be pushed by hand, and he started it again this time to bring it to the outside.

grinning smiley
Don't know if your car can be easily started, but is just an idea to consider before dismantling and hammering stuff...

:rally:




The famous 320is, with 2 piece 15" rims.
it looks like it must be a 1991 model year.

Bob in Everett
this 320is is late 1989, and has the M-Technics body kit.
Nah, last time I wanted to move it with a running engine it needed a lot of clutch slip just to make it roll.
rkj
It sounds like your issue is with two things, first the shoe/drum being stuck and then maybe a tight cable/mechanism on the hand brake. Once these crusty mechanisms sieze up it can be a real hassel freeing them (I'm sure you know this). So, if a torch is not your thing get some rust buster (I mean some really good stuff) and have at it. It will be slow going at first but little by little things will come free... Just wear eye and ear protection so nobody gets hurt smileys with beer

A sharp blow with a hammer can often jar lose parts that are welded together. Try this after a good soaking with rustbuster, have a few lugs in place and a long piece of wood or a metal bar (maybe an old tire iron) accross the lugs for turning the rotor/drum. Try turning one way and then the other with an occaisional hammer shot while you have pressure on turning. Once you have broke the bond you be on your way there. Good Luck Michiel


quote="Michiel 318iS"]
Tried that route, problem is that the brake shoe is kinda welded to the small drum inside the disc (stood for too long and now both are rusted into one piece)[/quote]
My only concern is... time... At the moment, the job, house, garden and kids are quite a handful... Not necessarily in that order!
rkj
Good Luck :wavey:
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